"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
But, if all the information contained in the universe is finite, your
premise is incorrect -i.e. we cannot be infinitely ignorant.


Who said that all the information in the universe was finite?


Let us consider, for a moment, the properties of a sub-atomic particle ...
an electron.

For our example, I would invite you to take only *one* of the atoms of
oxygen that exist in the room that you are currently sitting in. .. (I
assume that you are seated).


Now, I invite you to consider the information that might pertain to that
single electron. We might consider it's mass! We might consider it's
position in space! Perhaps we might also consider it's position in space at
a specific point in the past. We might even try to forecst where it will be
at a specific point in the future.


As there are an infinite number of points of time in the future - there are
an infinite number of bits of information about this single electron. In
fact, there are an infinite number of points in time in the next second. As
you can see, there is an infinite amount of knowledge about the existence of
a single electron over the next second of its' existence.


To disprove your theory even further, we can either take our electron and go
down to smaller particles, or we can go up to bigger entities.


Either way, you are wrong. It is amazing, but with my knowledge of man's
ignorance, I can prove that you know nothing about the nature of knowledge!



Regards


Donal
--

And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite. You are mixing the plurarity of the future with
existance. The fact is that the energy content right _now_ is finite. It
cannot be otherwise! The refute this implies that our existance (wave
state) right is not a certainty (deterministic). Now you are not going
to say you don't exist are you?

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

But, if all the information contained in the universe is finite, your
premise is incorrect -i.e. we cannot be infinitely ignorant.



Who said that all the information in the universe was finite?


Let us consider, for a moment, the properties of a sub-atomic particle ...
an electron.

For our example, I would invite you to take only *one* of the atoms of
oxygen that exist in the room that you are currently sitting in. .. (I
assume that you are seated).


Now, I invite you to consider the information that might pertain to that
single electron. We might consider it's mass! We might consider it's
position in space! Perhaps we might also consider it's position in space at
a specific point in the past. We might even try to forecst where it will be
at a specific point in the future.


As there are an infinite number of points of time in the future - there are
an infinite number of bits of information about this single electron. In
fact, there are an infinite number of points in time in the next second. As
you can see, there is an infinite amount of knowledge about the existence of
a single electron over the next second of its' existence.


To disprove your theory even further, we can either take our electron and go
down to smaller particles, or we can go up to bigger entities.


Either way, you are wrong. It is amazing, but with my knowledge of man's
ignorance, I can prove that you know nothing about the nature of knowledge!



Regards


Donal
--

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.

Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller time
frames?

Therefore, there are an infinite number of possibilities for the information
pertaining to the position of any single electron



You are mixing the plurarity of the future with
existance.

Well, if the next second is too difficult, how about the application of my
ideas to the last second?



The fact is that the energy content right _now_ is finite.

Only if you subscribe to the "Big Bang" Theory.

I don't.


It has several problems. The first is that the Universe was created out of
nothing at all - and that equal quantities of matter and anti-matter were
created.

Tell me, were equal quantities of Energy and anti-Energy created?

Is there really no empty space beyond the bounds of our little Universe?


It
cannot be otherwise! The refute this implies that our existance (wave
state) right is not a certainty (deterministic). Now you are not going
to say you don't exist are you?

I only exist in my own mind..... as do you.

Of course, *I* might only exist in your mind.




Regards



Donal
--

Donal wrote:
"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller time
frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.

Therefore, there are an infinite number of possibilities for the information
pertaining to the position of any single electron

Yes but only one comes into exixtance with observation. At that point
the wave function is determined and there your are!


You are mixing the plurarity of the future with
existance.


Well, if the next second is too difficult, how about the application of my
ideas to the last second?

Seconds are a long time on the atomis scale.



The fact is that the energy content right _now_ is finite.


Only if you subscribe to the "Big Bang" Theory.

I don't.


That is not a requirement of BB theories.

It has several problems. The first is that the Universe was created out of
nothing at all - and that equal quantities of matter and anti-matter were
created.

Tell me, were equal quantities of Energy and anti-Energy created?

Is there really no empty space beyond the bounds of our little Universe?


Yes nothing. nada. Zip.

Cheers MC


It
cannot be otherwise! The refute this implies that our existance (wave
state) right is not a certainty (deterministic). Now you are not going
to say you don't exist are you?


I only exist in my own mind..... as do you.

Of course, *I* might only exist in your mind.




Regards



Donal
--

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:
"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller
time
frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.

The discussion started with the contention that man's ignorance was
infinite. You introduced the "energy content" as a method of proving that
information was, in some way, finite. However, the sum total of energy
contained in the Universe is not related to the sum total of information
about the Universe. I have already demonstrated that information can be
related to time. As any unit of time can be divided into an infinite number
of sub-units, then the information regarding anything at all, can be
divided into an infinite number of discrete pieces of information.

The sum total of energy that exists in our Universe may well be finite.
However, the sum total of knowledge about the behaviour of any single
electron, in any single atom, is infinite!

In other words, we know nothing!



Regards


Donal
--




Therefore, there are an infinite number of possibilities for the
information
pertaining to the position of any single electron

Yes but only one comes into exixtance with observation. At that point
the wave function is determined and there your are!


You are mixing the plurarity of the future with
existance.


Well, if the next second is too difficult, how about the application of
my
ideas to the last second?

Seconds are a long time on the atomis scale.



The fact is that the energy content right _now_ is finite.


Only if you subscribe to the "Big Bang" Theory.

I don't.


That is not a requirement of BB theories.

It has several problems. The first is that the Universe was created out
of
nothing at all - and that equal quantities of matter and anti-matter
were
created.

Tell me, were equal quantities of Energy and anti-Energy created?

Is there really no empty space beyond the bounds of our little Universe?


Yes nothing. nada. Zip.

Cheers MC


It
cannot be otherwise! The refute this implies that our existance (wave
state) right is not a certainty (deterministic). Now you are not going
to say you don't exist are you?


I only exist in my own mind..... as do you.

Of course, *I* might only exist in your mind.




Regards



Donal
--

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller

time

frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.


The discussion started with the contention that man's ignorance was
infinite. You introduced the "energy content" as a method of proving that
information was, in some way, finite. However, the sum total of energy
contained in the Universe is not related to the sum total of information
about the Universe. I have already demonstrated that information can be
related to time. As any unit of time can be divided into an infinite number
of sub-units, then the information regarding anything at all, can be
divided into an infinite number of discrete pieces of information.

Information and energy have a very close connection. The minimum amount
of energy required to store a bit of information has been known for
quite some time. Since the energy content of the universe is finite it
follows that the information content is also finite for without energy
there is no information storage -i.e. that information does not exist.
Of course the amount of information is very very large but it's not
infinite -unless a big number means infinity to you...

The sum total of energy that exists in our Universe may well be finite.
However, the sum total of knowledge about the behaviour of any single
electron, in any single atom, is infinite!

No it isn't. Is it that you are confused about wave-particle duality -or
perhaps you are asking meaningless questions which cannot be answered
because there is no information in their answers?

Cheers MC

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect
accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater
times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller

time

frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.


The discussion started with the contention that man's ignorance was
infinite. You introduced the "energy content" as a method of proving
that
information was, in some way, finite. However, the sum total of energy
contained in the Universe is not related to the sum total of information
about the Universe. I have already demonstrated that information can
be
related to time. As any unit of time can be divided into an infinite
number
of sub-units, then the information regarding anything at all, can be
divided into an infinite number of discrete pieces of information.

Information and energy have a very close connection. The minimum amount
of energy required to store a bit of information has been known for
quite some time. Since the energy content of the universe is finite it
follows that the information content is also finite for without energy
there is no information storage -i.e. that information does not exist.
Of course the amount of information is very very large but it's not
infinite -unless a big number means infinity to you...

The sum total of energy that exists in our Universe may well be finite.
However, the sum total of knowledge about the behaviour of any single
electron, in any single atom, is infinite!

No it isn't. Is it that you are confused about wave-particle duality -or
perhaps you are asking meaningless questions which cannot be answered
because there is no information in their answers?

Does an electron exist? Is it a physical entity?

If so, then it must occupy a position in space!


Therefore, it will occupy an infinite number of positions in the next
second - because the next second contains an infinite number of points in
time.


Regards


Donal
--