Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

Hi Katy,
more like a running wrestling match, IMHO
Scout

"katysails" wrote in message ...
What's rugby? ;-)

It's sort of a cross between soccer and football but very rude.

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:
"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller
time
frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.

The discussion started with the contention that man's ignorance was
infinite. You introduced the "energy content" as a method of proving that
information was, in some way, finite. However, the sum total of energy
contained in the Universe is not related to the sum total of information
about the Universe. I have already demonstrated that information can be
related to time. As any unit of time can be divided into an infinite number
of sub-units, then the information regarding anything at all, can be
divided into an infinite number of discrete pieces of information.

The sum total of energy that exists in our Universe may well be finite.
However, the sum total of knowledge about the behaviour of any single
electron, in any single atom, is infinite!

In other words, we know nothing!



Regards


Donal
--




Therefore, there are an infinite number of possibilities for the
information
pertaining to the position of any single electron

Yes but only one comes into exixtance with observation. At that point
the wave function is determined and there your are!


You are mixing the plurarity of the future with
existance.


Well, if the next second is too difficult, how about the application of
my
ideas to the last second?

Seconds are a long time on the atomis scale.



The fact is that the energy content right _now_ is finite.


Only if you subscribe to the "Big Bang" Theory.

I don't.


That is not a requirement of BB theories.

It has several problems. The first is that the Universe was created out
of
nothing at all - and that equal quantities of matter and anti-matter
were
created.

Tell me, were equal quantities of Energy and anti-Energy created?

Is there really no empty space beyond the bounds of our little Universe?


Yes nothing. nada. Zip.

Cheers MC


It
cannot be otherwise! The refute this implies that our existance (wave
state) right is not a certainty (deterministic). Now you are not going
to say you don't exist are you?


I only exist in my own mind..... as do you.

Of course, *I* might only exist in your mind.




Regards



Donal
--

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

Hi Katy,
more like a running wrestling match, IMHO
Scout

Hey Scout! Where you been????

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

I'm still breathing Katy, but haven't been able to poke my head out
since school started in sept. It's great having summers off, provided
ya don't mind zero weekends throughout the school year and lots of 12
hour days. I wouldn't trade it for anything though.
I drop in frequently (lurk), enjoy the knee-slappers, and even share
some with my students. They get a huge kick out of asa and have even
shown some interest in sailing as a result of the readings. God help
us all if they start posting, lol.
Scout


"katysails" wrote in message ...
Hi Katy,
more like a running wrestling match, IMHO
Scout

Hey Scout! Where you been????

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller

time

frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.


The discussion started with the contention that man's ignorance was
infinite. You introduced the "energy content" as a method of proving that
information was, in some way, finite. However, the sum total of energy
contained in the Universe is not related to the sum total of information
about the Universe. I have already demonstrated that information can be
related to time. As any unit of time can be divided into an infinite number
of sub-units, then the information regarding anything at all, can be
divided into an infinite number of discrete pieces of information.

Information and energy have a very close connection. The minimum amount
of energy required to store a bit of information has been known for
quite some time. Since the energy content of the universe is finite it
follows that the information content is also finite for without energy
there is no information storage -i.e. that information does not exist.
Of course the amount of information is very very large but it's not
infinite -unless a big number means infinity to you...

The sum total of energy that exists in our Universe may well be finite.
However, the sum total of knowledge about the behaviour of any single
electron, in any single atom, is infinite!

No it isn't. Is it that you are confused about wave-particle duality -or
perhaps you are asking meaningless questions which cannot be answered
because there is no information in their answers?

Cheers MC

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

God help
us all if they start posting, lol.

You sure Bobbu isn't one of your students???

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

Spare us, please have mercy.

S.Simon


"katysails" wrote in message ...
God help
us all if they start posting, lol.

You sure Bobbu isn't one of your students???

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect
accurace
-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater
times
becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller

time

frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.


The discussion started with the contention that man's ignorance was
infinite. You introduced the "energy content" as a method of proving
that
information was, in some way, finite. However, the sum total of energy
contained in the Universe is not related to the sum total of information
about the Universe. I have already demonstrated that information can
be
related to time. As any unit of time can be divided into an infinite
number
of sub-units, then the information regarding anything at all, can be
divided into an infinite number of discrete pieces of information.

Information and energy have a very close connection. The minimum amount
of energy required to store a bit of information has been known for
quite some time. Since the energy content of the universe is finite it
follows that the information content is also finite for without energy
there is no information storage -i.e. that information does not exist.
Of course the amount of information is very very large but it's not
infinite -unless a big number means infinity to you...

The sum total of energy that exists in our Universe may well be finite.
However, the sum total of knowledge about the behaviour of any single
electron, in any single atom, is infinite!

No it isn't. Is it that you are confused about wave-particle duality -or
perhaps you are asking meaningless questions which cannot be answered
because there is no information in their answers?

Does an electron exist? Is it a physical entity?

If so, then it must occupy a position in space!


Therefore, it will occupy an infinite number of positions in the next
second - because the next second contains an infinite number of points in
time.


Regards


Donal
--

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

Donal wrote:



Does an electron exist? Is it a physical entity?

Yes


If so, then it must occupy a position in space!

Not unless you look for it, until then it is everywhere, if
you subscribe to quantum mechanical theory.


Therefore, it will occupy an infinite number of positions in the next
second - because the next second contains an infinite number of points in
time.

Like I said, it always was and is everywhere, it's one way of explaining
quantum tunneling.

Cheers
Marty

Australians' disgusting behaviour
 

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...



And that is where you are so wrong. The fact is that we can predict
exactly where the atom will be for a short period with perfect

accurace

-that's thanks to QED. The problem is that the solution to greater

times

becomes too complex. This does not mean that information content right
now is infinite.


Of course it does!

Can you not break the next second into an infinite number of smaller

time


frames?

That has nothing to do with the energy content of the system.


The discussion started with the contention that man's ignorance was
infinite. You introduced the "energy content" as a method of proving

that

information was, in some way, finite. However, the sum total of energy
contained in the Universe is not related to the sum total of information
about the Universe. I have already demonstrated that information can

be

related to time. As any unit of time can be divided into an infinite

number

of sub-units, then the information regarding anything at all, can be
divided into an infinite number of discrete pieces of information.


Information and energy have a very close connection. The minimum amount
of energy required to store a bit of information has been known for
quite some time. Since the energy content of the universe is finite it
follows that the information content is also finite for without energy
there is no information storage -i.e. that information does not exist.
Of course the amount of information is very very large but it's not
infinite -unless a big number means infinity to you...


The sum total of energy that exists in our Universe may well be finite.
However, the sum total of knowledge about the behaviour of any single
electron, in any single atom, is infinite!

No it isn't. Is it that you are confused about wave-particle duality -or
perhaps you are asking meaningless questions which cannot be answered
because there is no information in their answers?


Does an electron exist?

Only when it's interacting with something.

Is it a physical entity?

Yes it has rest mass

If so, then it must occupy a position in space!

Yes, when measured.

Therefore, it will occupy an infinite number of positions in the next
second - because the next second contains an infinite number of points in
time.

After measurement you will have to remeasure it's position and at at
that moment it does not occupy an infinite numer of positions. Do you
see it now -that the wave function collapses on measurement means that
the information conetent is finite.

Cheers MC

Regards


Donal
--