A water skier is pulled along by a boat with machinery
but a water ski is not a vessel.

Likewise a kite sailor is pulled along by a sail but the
kite sailor's board is not a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
Of course they are. The colregs are all inclusive. If the vessel is
making way she is being propelled by oars, sails or machinery. There is
nothing else possible.

Cheers MC

Wally wrote:
The_navigator© wrote:

OED:


c. transf. Applied to something that is spread out like a sail,
or that catches the wind.


Note "c".


The dictionary, so far as I understand it, describes usages of words as part
of language, but not neccessarly a legal definition for the purpose of the
colregs (if the kitesail thingy is where this coming from / going).

Not saying it doesn't apply, though. On a canoe, the method of propulsion
isn't part of the vessel, but is a separate implement held and manipulated
by the person. Although not a direct correlate to the idea of whether a
sailboat can only be such if the sail is attached to it, it does suggest a
precedent for non-attachment of the means of propulsion. What about those
river ferry raft-things that are moved by the person on board pulling on a
rope stretched across the river? Aren't hey vessels?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

A water skier's board in the water is a vessel under tow.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

A water skier is pulled along by a boat with machinery
but a water ski is not a vessel.

Likewise a kite sailor is pulled along by a sail but the
kite sailor's board is not a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Of course they are. The colregs are all inclusive. If the vessel is
making way she is being propelled by oars, sails or machinery. There is
nothing else possible.

Cheers MC

Wally wrote:

The_navigator© wrote:


OED:


c. transf. Applied to something that is spread out like a sail,
or that catches the wind.


Note "c".


The dictionary, so far as I understand it, describes usages of words as part
of language, but not neccessarly a legal definition for the purpose of the
colregs (if the kitesail thingy is where this coming from / going).

Not saying it doesn't apply, though. On a canoe, the method of propulsion
isn't part of the vessel, but is a separate implement held and manipulated
by the person. Although not a direct correlate to the idea of whether a
sailboat can only be such if the sail is attached to it, it does suggest a
precedent for non-attachment of the means of propulsion. What about those
river ferry raft-things that are moved by the person on board pulling on a
rope stretched across the river? Aren't hey vessels?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

NOT!

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
A water skier's board in the water is a vessel under tow.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

A water skier is pulled along by a boat with machinery
but a water ski is not a vessel.

Likewise a kite sailor is pulled along by a sail but the
kite sailor's board is not a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Of course they are. The colregs are all inclusive. If the vessel is
making way she is being propelled by oars, sails or machinery. There is
nothing else possible.

Cheers MC

Wally wrote:

The_navigator© wrote:


OED:


c. transf. Applied to something that is spread out like a sail,
or that catches the wind.


Note "c".


The dictionary, so far as I understand it, describes usages of words as part
of language, but not neccessarly a legal definition for the purpose of the
colregs (if the kitesail thingy is where this coming from / going).

Not saying it doesn't apply, though. On a canoe, the method of propulsion
isn't part of the vessel, but is a separate implement held and manipulated
by the person. Although not a direct correlate to the idea of whether a
sailboat can only be such if the sail is attached to it, it does suggest a
precedent for non-attachment of the means of propulsion. What about those
river ferry raft-things that are moved by the person on board pulling on a
rope stretched across the river? Aren't hey vessels?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

Think of it in more practical terms. If it was bob**** on the ski/kite,
it'd be a barge under tow.

PDW

In article , Simple Simon
wrote:

A water skier is pulled along by a boat with machinery
but a water ski is not a vessel.

Likewise a kite sailor is pulled along by a sail but the
kite sailor's board is not a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Of course they are. The colregs are all inclusive. If the vessel is
making way she is being propelled by oars, sails or machinery. There is
nothing else possible.

Cheers MC

Wally wrote:
The_navigator© wrote:

OED:


c. transf. Applied to something that is spread out like a sail,
or that catches the wind.


Note "c".


The dictionary, so far as I understand it, describes usages of words as
part
of language, but not neccessarly a legal definition for the purpose of the
colregs (if the kitesail thingy is where this coming from / going).

Not saying it doesn't apply, though. On a canoe, the method of propulsion
isn't part of the vessel, but is a separate implement held and manipulated
by the person. Although not a direct correlate to the idea of whether a
sailboat can only be such if the sail is attached to it, it does suggest a
precedent for non-attachment of the means of propulsion. What about those
river ferry raft-things that are moved by the person on board pulling on a
rope stretched across the river? Aren't hey vessels?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

What is a sail?

Neal . . .Anything I say it is.

Bobspit . . . That depends on the what the meaning of is is.

The rest of the world . . .See Below.

The navigator© wrote:

OED:

1. a. One of the shaped pieces of canvas ......

While it's laughable to use the Oxford English Dictionary to reach for
conclusions in maritime law, I agree with Navvie© here. A kitesurfer is
covered by the ColRegs as a sailing vessel, as is a windsurfer, as is a
dugout canoe with a big leafy branch sticking up.

Why all the disagreement? Seems pretty obvious. I never thought straining
at gnats after swallowing a camel would be such a popular pastime.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

If it's so obvious then please explain why a
water skier is not defined as a vessel.

The only difference between a water skier
and a kite boarder is one is being pulled by
the wind and the other is being pulled by a
vessel.

One cannot be classified as being towed by
the wind while one can classify a skier as
being towed by a vessel. If a water skier
while being towed is not a vessel, certainly
a kite boarder while not being towed is
not a vessel.

If you're going to use logic then use it.

S.Simon
"DSK" wrote in message ...
The navigator© wrote:

OED:

1. a. One of the shaped pieces of canvas ......

While it's laughable to use the Oxford English Dictionary to reach for
conclusions in maritime law, I agree with Navvie© here. A kitesurfer is
covered by the ColRegs as a sailing vessel, as is a windsurfer, as is a
dugout canoe with a big leafy branch sticking up.

Why all the disagreement? Seems pretty obvious. I never thought straining
at gnats after swallowing a camel would be such a popular pastime.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King