Come now. . . .say it isn't so!

It isn't so...especially in small business. If you want to stay alive =
you stay very competitive, which means you try to pass as little of that =
cost on as possible so you won't hurt your client base. If you are in a =
service industry and you destroy your client base, you won't have a =
business for very long.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Gee . . .I didn't know. In my business I added up all the costs .. .
..deducted them from the gross and what was left over after everything else
was the net profit. I always included taxes and the cost of collecting them
on the cost side of the ledger and used the total to figure pricing. I sure
didn't count them as profit. To me thre was no difference between taxes and
UPS or electricity bills.

Just like when the tobacco companies got hit with the big fines and taxes.
Cost of smoking went up. Now what $6 a pack in New York I think. When I
worked for a store and the minimum wage went up the owner automatically
added five percent to everything to cover the increase in costs; e.g.
delivery costs for goods to the store due to automatic increase in Teamster
wages. When the local county added 1/2% sales tax the store retail prices
went up to match.

I've never been in a business where taxes were taken from the profit side.
That's why sales tax is based on gross sales. What we did have to do was
change some other part of the formula. The only things you can change are
Price, Quality and Service. In our case we raised the price but changed the
hours of business to fit time when others were not working and kept quality
at a high level with no change. We also provided more service after the
sale. For example. Buy the software from us and we give classes for
customers at no charge. Buy elsewhere and it's $20 an hour tuition.

I still maintain in the end only the consumer pays taxes. Either as your
customer . .. or the hit you take out of your own disposable income.

But then . . . .I'm not in business anymore.

MST

Ummm.... perhaps you're thinking about what's left after all
is said and done... Taxes are calculated on the profit after
expenses are deducted. Sometimes, after taxes are paid,
you're left with nothing, or worse, you lost money for the
year. This is basic accounting.

You're certainly able to add the cost of taxes to your service
or parts or whatever, but that has nothing to do with your
tax liability resulting from your profit.

For example, if you have a widget you're selling for $1, you
add 8% to the $1, which gives you a sale price of $1.08. If
the widget cost you $0.25, your profit is still $0.75, which
you'll be taxed on at the end of the year. It doesn't matter
if they sales tax is 8% or 300%.

If your cost for collecting the tax is $0.25, then your profit
will be less. If you add the cost of collecting the tax to your
gross sale price, then your profit will still be $0.75, you will
have to charge tax based on the new gross cost of the widget,
but you also risk losing customers due to potentially lower
cost widgets being available. So, it's a tradeoff between
selling your widget and making less profit and potentially not
selling your widget for the same profit.

If everyone raises prices due to an increase in costs, this is
called inflation. Their money is worth less per widget.

"Schoonertrash" wrote in message
...
Gee . . .I didn't know. In my business I added up all the costs .. .
.deducted them from the gross and what was left over after everything else
was the net profit. I always included taxes and the cost of collecting
them
on the cost side of the ledger and used the total to figure pricing. I
sure
didn't count them as profit. To me thre was no difference between taxes
and
UPS or electricity bills.

Just like when the tobacco companies got hit with the big fines and taxes.
Cost of smoking went up. Now what $6 a pack in New York I think. When I
worked for a store and the minimum wage went up the owner automatically
added five percent to everything to cover the increase in costs; e.g.
delivery costs for goods to the store due to automatic increase in
Teamster
wages. When the local county added 1/2% sales tax the store retail prices
went up to match.

I've never been in a business where taxes were taken from the profit side.
That's why sales tax is based on gross sales. What we did have to do was
change some other part of the formula. The only things you can change are
Price, Quality and Service. In our case we raised the price but changed
the
hours of business to fit time when others were not working and kept
quality
at a high level with no change. We also provided more service after the
sale. For example. Buy the software from us and we give classes for
customers at no charge. Buy elsewhere and it's $20 an hour tuition.

I still maintain in the end only the consumer pays taxes. Either as your
customer . .. or the hit you take out of your own disposable income.

But then . . . .I'm not in business anymore.

MST

"katysails" wrote in message

....Stop listening to the addlepated old drug addict...he's way passe'....

Rush Limbaugh??????

CM

I've never been in a business where taxes were taken from the profit =
side

Nope. You have your gross. You deduct your deductibles. You pay your =
employees. You pay the tacxes on your employees. You pay the retail =
tax on your wholesale purchases turned into retail sales. After all is =
said and done, there's the profit. And then you pay taxes on that. I'
ve had two small businesses of my own and that's how it's worked. =
That's how it's worked for the larger businesses that I've been =
associated with. All you're doing is ignoring the fact that your =
business paid taxes.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

....Stop listening to the addlepated old drug addict...he's way =
passe'....

Rush Limbaugh??????

You got it...or maybe I meant Neal?

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Iguess it's all in how you look at it. Had the same problem back in FFA.
At the end of four years my projects all showed a profit. The instructor
pointed out I hadn't included the value of my time, which then of course
would show me at a huge loss. My point was my time had not value unless
someone else had offered to pay me for work of some sort . ..and I turned
them down in favor of working on the FFA project. Since I never turned
down a paying job and included that in the figures I was ahead on both
counts. The only value my time had was what I produced, in terms of cash
for a job done for others or cash for selling beef, corn, ornamental shrubs
et. al , at the end. We never did agree but since in 1963 I finished four
years of high school with a goodly amount of cash in the bank I still
received a "B" for the course. Why not an "A"? Well . . .part of the
course had to do with things like welding . . . .and that's not something I
would make a profit in doing.

My only point is that everything is either cost, gross sales or net profit.
Anything that diminishes the second two goes in the first group. At the end
it's the money paid to me (before personal income tax) that counts. I'm not
so sure personal income tax shouldn't count anyway if you think of it as a
cost of doing business . .which, after all, is what we all do. My current
business is selling my mariner skills to the company that operates this
particular vessel.

I'll stick to my guns. Only consumers pay tax. Businesses only collect
taxes . .. and one way or another pass on the cost to their customers and
the profits to their investors. And by the way . .. sales tax is based on
gross sales not net profit. Sheesh, just thinking about all the taxes I had
to pass on to the customers gives me a headache.

And as my Uncle Olaf used to say . . . .

Cheers

MST

I am really, really glad you're not my accountant. :-)

"Schoonertrash" wrote in message
...
Iguess it's all in how you look at it. Had the same problem back in FFA.
At the end of four years my projects all showed a profit. The instructor
pointed out I hadn't included the value of my time, which then of course
would show me at a huge loss. My point was my time had not value unless
someone else had offered to pay me for work of some sort . ..and I turned
them down in favor of working on the FFA project. Since I never turned
down a paying job and included that in the figures I was ahead on both
counts. The only value my time had was what I produced, in terms of cash
for a job done for others or cash for selling beef, corn, ornamental
shrubs
et. al , at the end. We never did agree but since in 1963 I finished four
years of high school with a goodly amount of cash in the bank I still
received a "B" for the course. Why not an "A"? Well . . .part of the
course had to do with things like welding . . . .and that's not something
I
would make a profit in doing.

My only point is that everything is either cost, gross sales or net
profit.
Anything that diminishes the second two goes in the first group. At the
end
it's the money paid to me (before personal income tax) that counts. I'm
not
so sure personal income tax shouldn't count anyway if you think of it as a
cost of doing business . .which, after all, is what we all do. My current
business is selling my mariner skills to the company that operates this
particular vessel.

I'll stick to my guns. Only consumers pay tax. Businesses only collect
taxes . .. and one way or another pass on the cost to their customers and
the profits to their investors. And by the way . .. sales tax is based on
gross sales not net profit. Sheesh, just thinking about all the taxes I
had
to pass on to the customers gives me a headache.

And as my Uncle Olaf used to say . . . .

Cheers

MST

It ain't rocket science. Well for some it isn't rocket science. Best
supporter of my pricing method was the IRS. When I sold out to my partner
we had to do a complete set of books for those folks. Zero complaints from
them. Same thing when I sold the publishing business to another company.
My net profit (gross minus all overhead including the various business
taxes) accrued to me and was subject only to personal income tax at that
point.

So if you (as a business) don't count the taxes you collected in the sale
of goods and and/or services, or the other taxes you otherwise pay as a cost
of doing business where do they end up? I don't understand where in the
ledgers you buried ahhh listed them. Is this some sort of business income
tax based on net profit of the business? We didn't have that in my state.
Even so, I still am not sure why it was not counted as a cost of doing
business.

For sure it makes me glad I'm working for all of you instead of running one
of those businesses again. Now I have a guy who specializes in mariner's do
the income tax. Much simpler . . .at least until we get a fair flat tax
system but then I'd end up paying more. Gonna miss those loopholes when
that happens.

MST