Some of them were as bad as the picture Ganz's link
showed. Most people who buy yachts in this so-called
modern world are looking inside at the cushions, galley
fittings, teak and holly sole, queen berths, shower
facilities and all that other crap that's there to please
the womenfolk. It's the rare yachtsman who even bothers
to check keel alignment.

S.Simon


"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

How did they sell those boats with crooked keels? Didn't people spot the error
or was it so slight?

RB

Jeez, well how could you miss it? I wonder how it affects
the sailing/pointing.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Some of them were as bad as the picture Ganz's link
showed. Most people who buy yachts in this so-called
modern world are looking inside at the cushions, galley
fittings, teak and holly sole, queen berths, shower
facilities and all that other crap that's there to please
the womenfolk. It's the rare yachtsman who even bothers
to check keel alignment.

S.Simon


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

How did they sell those boats with crooked keels? Didn't people spot the
error
or was it so slight?

RB

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

When did you work at Irwin, and were you the person who tightened the
keel bolts?

Simple Simon wrote:

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

I worked for Irwin for one year back in 1987-88. They fired
me because I refused to take their stupid drug test they decided
to institute because they would get better insurance rates. A lot
of good it did them as they went bankrupt about a year later.

I was a MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) on the 43MKII
line sometimes helping out with the 38 and 52's and where ever
else I was needed. I had nothing to do with installing the keels
but I watched the procedure several times. They usually did it
at night when there was few people around so the boat could
be put on the line ready for installing the interior and systems.

S.Simon


"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message ...
When did you work at Irwin, and were you the person who tightened the
keel bolts?

Simple Simon wrote:

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

I worked for Irwin for one year back in 1987-88. They fired
me because I refused to take their stupid drug test they decided
to institute because they would get better insurance rates. A lot
of good it did them as they went bankrupt about a year later.

I was a MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) on the 43MKII
line sometimes helping out with the 38 and 52's and where ever
else I was needed. I had nothing to do with installing the keels
but I watched the procedure several times. They usually did it
at night when there was few people around so the boat could
be put on the line ready for installing the interior and systems.

S.Simon


"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message ...
When did you work at Irwin, and were you the person who tightened the
keel bolts?

Simple Simon wrote:

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

Interesting explanation. I suspect damage, however. I'm wondering
if a mistake such as what you describe would survive the 30 years
from then until now. Seems like it wouldn't and/or it would be
spotted on at least one of the many haulouts.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

Was it bent before you ran over it?

Cheers MC

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

Good catch.

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Was it bent before you ran over it?

Cheers MC

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.