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Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Loco recently admitted to me, in a tearful moment, that only 80 Express 30's
were built!!! Holy Godzooky! Calling that poor ugly thang a still-born failure was a understatement if there ever was one! Why did it fail? 1) Terribly overpriced at the time. 2) Bland interior that was downright awful on some versions 3) Ugly deckhouse and overall look turned off many buyers. 4) Primitive cockpit design, hard edges and best for a tiller 5) No marque value or reputation for quality dispite a few good reviews. Now lets look at a raceboat that worked and had more than 600 built...the J30. 1) Fast, fast, fast and fun to sail. 2) A real racer with a tiller. 3) a simply great cabin. 4) Deck and cockpit designed for racers 5) Plenty of other J30's to race against! There are 5 on City Island alone! 6) Racer oriented fractional rig. So IF YOU WANT TO RACE, why buy the Express 30? One reason...price. They can be found CHEAP. By contrast, a nice J30 will still command 30K or more. Capt RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Oh...and the J Boat has real marque value! Tell someone you own a J boat and
they know what you have. Tell them you have and Express and you end up saying it's kinda like a racer version of the C&C's of that era, only uglier and not as well finished. Anytime Loco wants to post pics of his interior against mine...he's welcome! Whoooooo Hoooooooie! RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Loco has made a bitch of Booby Sue. 95% of his posts are about Loco. His first posts of the day are about Loco! His last posts of the evening are about Loco! The power of Loco compels him! "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Loco recently admitted to me, in a tearful moment, that only 80 Express 30's were built!!! Holy Godzooky! Calling that poor ugly thang a still-born failure was a understatement if there ever was one! Why did it fail? 1) Terribly overpriced at the time. 2) Bland interior that was downright awful on some versions 3) Ugly deckhouse and overall look turned off many buyers. 4) Primitive cockpit design, hard edges and best for a tiller 5) No marque value or reputation for quality dispite a few good reviews. Now lets look at a raceboat that worked and had more than 600 built...the J30. 1) Fast, fast, fast and fun to sail. 2) A real racer with a tiller. 3) a simply great cabin. 4) Deck and cockpit designed for racers 5) Plenty of other J30's to race against! There are 5 on City Island alone! 6) Racer oriented fractional rig. So IF YOU WANT TO RACE, why buy the Express 30? One reason...price. They can be found CHEAP. By contrast, a nice J30 will still command 30K or more. Capt RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Loco has made a bitch of Booby Sue. 95% of his posts are about Loco. His first
posts of the day are about Loco! His last posts of the evening are about Loco! The power of Loco compels him! Golly, that's clever! But my first post was about Black water....oh, you're right..it was Loco related! Bwahahahahaha! RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
There appears to be a festering, deep down, genuine hatred/jealousy of Loco
and his yacht. There must be more to this than we know about. eh? SV "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Loco has made a bitch of Booby Sue. 95% of his posts are about Loco. His first posts of the day are about Loco! His last posts of the evening are about Loco! The power of Loco compels him! "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Loco recently admitted to me, in a tearful moment, that only 80 Express 30's were built!!! Holy Godzooky! Calling that poor ugly thang a still-born failure was a understatement if there ever was one! Why did it fail? 1) Terribly overpriced at the time. 2) Bland interior that was downright awful on some versions 3) Ugly deckhouse and overall look turned off many buyers. 4) Primitive cockpit design, hard edges and best for a tiller 5) No marque value or reputation for quality dispite a few good reviews. Now lets look at a raceboat that worked and had more than 600 built...the J30. 1) Fast, fast, fast and fun to sail. 2) A real racer with a tiller. 3) a simply great cabin. 4) Deck and cockpit designed for racers 5) Plenty of other J30's to race against! There are 5 on City Island alone! 6) Racer oriented fractional rig. So IF YOU WANT TO RACE, why buy the Express 30? One reason...price. They can be found CHEAP. By contrast, a nice J30 will still command 30K or more. Capt RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
There appears to be a festering, deep down, genuine hatred/jealousy of Loco
and his yacht. Yes indeed, but let me go on record: I don't hate the Express 30. For those who want to race handicap, it's a fine choice. If you want a roomy cruiser there are better choices. I can't speak for others however. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
By contrast, a nice J30 will still command 30K or more.
No way not even on the Chesapeake where there's a fleet. My buddy bought a nice one in N.Y. 3 years ago where there is no fleet and he paid $14K. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
My buddy bought a
nice one in N.Y. 3 years ago where there is no fleet and he paid $14K. I have a friend who also got one in NY for cheap, but it's not the norm. Average price is the mid 20s for 1979-1982 and the nicer ones of mid 80s go for far higher, if you can find one. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Now lets look at a raceboat that worked and had more than 600
built...the J30. 1) Fast, fast, fast and fun to sail. 2) A real racer with a tiller. 3) a simply great cabin. 4) Deck and cockpit designed for racers 5) Plenty of other J30's to race against! There are 5 on City Island alone! 6) Racer oriented fractional rig. Now if the Boobster knew anything about boats he would have posted. 1. The J30 is slower than an Express 30. Painfully slow upwind in light air which is why class rules allow a 163% genoa. Owners bitched and had the rules changed. They know how slow the boat is. Boob**** thanks anything made by J is fast. Knowledgeable people know that the only thing a J beats is another J. Same thing as a Hobie Cat. 2. A tiller that requires the use of steriods in a breeze because of the unbalanced rudder. The boat drives like a bus. 3. Great cabin? Try to avoid the stream of water from the chainplates while replacing the port bulkhead that has been a failure on every J30. Try to take a leak using the head. Try to set the prop. 4. Deck and cockpit designed for racers. 5. Plenty of other J30s to race against in some areas. 6. Racer oriented fractional rig that on every J30 has broken at the spreaders unless modified. (I'll take a masthead any day and with a big chute run all the fractionals down on the downwind leg.) 7. Have fun replacing the bulkhead under the cockpit floor that fails on every J30. 8. Have fun replacing the core in the transom all around the exhaust outlet that fails on every J30. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
thanks anything made by J
is fast. Knowledgeable people know that the only thing a J beats is another J. Same thing as a Hobie Cat. There you have if, folks. J-Boat doesn't make fast boats afterall! You heard it from Loco first! Loco lists a few problems that the J30 has. Big whoop. All boats have some problems. Doesn't effect my comments one bit. The J30 was and remains a success. The Express 30 failed then and is generally unknown now by the sailing public. Yes, I know, they're very popular somewhere or other! Bwahahahaha! RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Loco lists a few problems that the J30 has. Big whoop. All boats have some
problems. Doesn't effect my comments one bit. LOL.............. A few problems - big woop? I forgot to even mention how the keel got moved farther and farther off center as production went on and J, the so called high quality builder, refused to correct the problem. The keel problem is so bad that owners have to spend thousands having it fixed or the boat just ain't competitive. Couple this with crumbling rigs, wet transoms, delaminating bulkheads and a boat that drives like a slow bus and you have one fun to sail POS. As always you prove that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOATS. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
The keel
problem is so bad that owners have to spend thousands having it fixed or the boat just ain't competitive. Couple this with crumbling rigs, wet transoms, delaminating bulkheads and a boat that drives like a slow bus and you have one fun to sail POS. As always you prove that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOATS. Funny that with five J30's on City Island (I know 4 of the owners) none of them have any serious problems. I'm also on the J-list and rarely hear much about this stuff. Also, the J30 website lists some of the problems, but aside from the bulkheads (not a big job), it's pretty rare for the J30 to need much. Of course 600+ boats raced hard over 25 years are going to have problems. The 30 was a successful boat, where the Express wasn't. You can whine and cry, but that's a fact. Show me a pics of Express 30's competing against eachother in an anual race! Bwahahahaha! Loco, your boat is forgotten. I won't say it's a POS, because I'm better than you. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
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Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
I always thought the J-30 was an ugly boat.
It's odd looking, especially at rest. Looks good when sailing though. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Funny that with five J30's on City Island (I know 4 of the owners) none of
them have any serious problems. Maybe they are all as stupid as you are. Also, the J30 website lists some of the problems, but aside from the bulkheads (not a big job), it's pretty rare for the J30 to need much. Rare if the boat has had the work done already. The 30 was a successful boat, where the Express wasn't. Different times dimwit. The J30 started out in boom times - 1979 - and had a good run because of one design status. The Express started out in the mid eighties just before things went sour in the sailboat building business when MANY quality builders failed. Hell, S2 one of the most respected builders of the time and a tremendously popular boat with charter trade desided to close shop. You know nothing about boats. Show me a pics of Express 30's competing against each other in an anual race! Gee I guess your attempting to come up with a winning challenge with that one. We all know there's not enough hulls in most areas to do that and secondly there would have to be some interest. However I do understand there is or has been a one design class on the Great Lakes because of the number of boats that were sold in that area. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Mike, the Express 30 could never be a OD boat
since it was a semi-custom boat. Look at the differences between Ringmaster, Pony and Vivace. BTW, how'd the race go? -- ---- Steve S/V Pony Express "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... : Funny that with five J30's on City Island (I know 4 of the owners) none of : them have any serious problems. : : Maybe they are all as stupid as you are. : : Also, the J30 website lists some of the problems, but aside from the : bulkheads (not a big job), it's pretty rare for the J30 to need much. : : Rare if the boat has had the work done already. : : The 30 was a successful boat, where the Express wasn't. : : Different times dimwit. The J30 started out in boom times - 1979 - and had : a good run because of one design status. The Express started out in the mid : eighties just before things went sour in the sailboat building business when : MANY quality builders failed. Hell, S2 one of the most respected builders of : the time and a tremendously popular boat with charter trade desided to close : shop. : You know nothing about boats. : : Show me a pics of Express 30's competing against each other in an : anual race! : : Gee I guess your attempting to come up with a winning challenge with that : one. We all know there's not enough hulls in most areas to do that and : secondly there would have to be some interest. However I do understand there : is or has been a one design class on the Great Lakes because of the number of : boats that were sold in that area. : S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" : Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
How do you bend the mast on the Express 30? Is there a baby stay?
Yes, the boat has a babystay. The babystay has some effect on mast bend but it's really there to eliminate the need for fore and aft lowers. The babystay also keeps the rig from pumping in waves. We disconnect the babystay in flat water and moderate breezes. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
I think it is a pass, when for about the same money, you can pick up
a sled like an Olson 30. On 27 Oct 2003 01:24:03 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote: I always thought the J-30 was an ugly boat. It's odd looking, especially at rest. Looks good when sailing though. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Funny that with five J30's on City Island (I know 4 of the owners) none of
them have any serious problems. Maybe they are all as stupid as you are. Right, Loco. You get caught lying and then call people you don't know names. Typical. No wonder you own a forgotten boat! No wonder I own better and will soon own the boat of your dreams! Bwahahahahaha! RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Mike, the Express 30 could never be a OD boat
since it was a semi-custom boat. Semi custom?? Bwahahahahahaha! Do you know what semi custom means? Nope, you don't! RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
I think it is a pass, when for about the same money, you can pick up
a sled like an Olson 30. True, if you really want to be serious about racing on a budget, go for an Olson or even a J29. Comparitively the J and Express are slow. But if you want to cruise as well, the J30 cabin is lightyears nicer than the Express, especially the later models with the coaming-cockpits. J did a nice job with the cabin using lots of wood a fine fit and finish. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Right, Loco. You get caught lying and then call people you don't know
names. Name the lie. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
the J30 cabin is lightyears nicer than the Express,
ROFLOL! S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
the J30 cabin is lightyears nicer than the Express,
ROFLOL! Loco, you ARE lying if you even remotely claim that the Express Cabin is anything but plain compared to all the teak in the average J30. Let's Compare! http://www.jboats.com/j30/images/j30maincab.jpg http://www.jboats.com/j30/images/j30maincabaft.jpg Feel free to show ANY pic of an Express 30 that can compare to that or the interior of my C&C 32! RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Bart Senior wrote:
I think it is a pass, when for about the same money, you can pick up a sled like an Olson 30. Shucks you can pick up an Olson almost for the asking. They are fast but have approximately zero interior room and as they age, they need more and more structural additions to stay competitive. No comparing a J-30 or Express 30 to an Olson 30 IMHO. They are totally different boats for totally different purposes. Maybe you should take a look at the Olson 911. It's not as roomy as either Express or J but it's faster despite being a bit shorter, and it has a real cabin. The Laser 28 is real nice too. Or a Frers 30. Funny thing, the Olsons were all reckoned as well built boats, and were. Apparently the ones that have been sailed hard for years are reaching the upper end of the load cycle life, which is a basic property of the material. You can't make 1500# of fiberglass do as well at holding up under high stress as 2500# of the same material. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Loco, you ARE lying if you even remotely claim that the Express Cabin is
anything but plain compared to all the teak in the average J30. Nice try. Only the later J30s had a teak and holly sole. What do you mean by the J30 has an all teak interior? There's less teak in a J30 vs an Express. My boat has the optional varnished interior. Only other difference is the J has all the furniture pushed outwards towards the hull to give the appearance of more room. The Express has a usefull interior designed for real passagemaking with storage behind the furniture and a real seaberth. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Lets look at some other stuff. You say the boat is a better family cruiser.
J30 has a wider beam but mainly at deck level and a narrow waterline beam. Makes for real fun sailing in a breeze with a wife and kid. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Lets look at some other stuff. You say the boat is a better family cruiser. J30 has a wider beam but mainly at deck level and a narrow waterline beam. Makes for real fun sailing in a breeze with a wife and kid. Loco, why are you arguing with Bubbles? Don't you realize he's nuts? DSK |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Loco, why are you arguing with Bubbles? Don't you realize he's nuts?
It's always a hoot By the way I always liked the Olson 911S too. I like the light wood interior, better head than the Express and the eliptical foils. It's a newer design than the Express therefore they were selling for more than I wanted to spend at the time. Not many around. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Loco, why are you arguing with Bubbles? Don't you realize he's nuts?
SAIL LOCO wrote: It's always a hoot I suppose. Reminds me too much of trying to have discussion with a 4 year old, except that most 4 year olds eventually learn something. By the way I always liked the Olson 911S too. I like the light wood interior, better head than the Express and the eliptical foils. It's a newer design than the Express therefore they were selling for more than I wanted to spend at the time. Not many around. Yep. The Olson sailors all diss the 911 and the 34 since they are Schumacher designs and most were actually built by Ericson. Kind of a shame they didn't catch on better, I don't think there's any class of them anywhere. Theres a 34 around here that has been converted for cruising, when out casually daysailing it runs rings around most of the PHRF fleet racing. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
I suppose. Reminds me too much of trying to have discussion with a 4 year old,
except that most 4 year olds eventually learn something. Doug, which interior do you prefer? RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
The Express has a usefull interior designed for real
passagemaking with storage behind the furniture and a real seaberth. Imagine You're so crazy that in the face of those pics you'll actually claim that your boat has a nice interior. I've posted pics of a nice C&C32 and J30 interior. Funny how there's none for the Express 30...or the 35 for that matter, which also looks cheap! RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
I've posted pics of a nice C&C32 and J30 interior. Funny how there's none
for the Express 30...or the 35 for that matter, which also looks cheap! You seem to have lots of time to waste. Do an internet search for an Express interior. You found time to locate a photo of a brand new late model J30 interior that had never been used. I don't have any interior photos. Unlike you I have better things to do than take self fullfilling pictures of my boat's interior. I take sailing pictures in the BVIs. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Do an internet search for an Express
interior. You found time to locate a photo of a brand new late model J30 There is very little online info for the Express boats. Even less in the way of pictures. These boats have generated little interest. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Any time you deal with RB you need a reality check. J30's have gone "upscale" in the last
few years. We can only speculate on the reasons. Here's some pics of a J30 from the same era as the Express. http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/2/52898702.htm The Express sure looks good compared to the early J30's! "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Do an internet search for an Express interior. You found time to locate a photo of a brand new late model J30 There is very little online info for the Express boats. Even less in the way of pictures. These boats have generated little interest. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Here's some pics of a J30 from the same era as the Express.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/2/52898702.htm The Express sure looks good compared to the early J30's! Those J30 pics still look nicer than the Express. I can show you BAD J30 interiors as many of them were sailed hard. Doesn't prove a thing. I'm still waiting to see ANY Express Interiors that don't look cheap. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Jeff Morris wrote: Any time you deal with RB you need a reality check. J30's have gone "upscale" in the last few years. We can only speculate on the reasons. It does boggle the mind, doesn't it? Here's some pics of a J30 from the same era as the Express. http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/2/52898702.htm The Express sure looks good compared to the early J30's! Well, the Express has slightly less elbow room but IMHO a much more practical & comfortable cabin for cruising. Actually, if I were seriously shopping for a 30 foot racer/cruiser I would pick the CS-30 (and in fact almost bought one, before we settled on the tugboat). Its a bit slower but has an excellent layout above & below decks, strongly built, and is IMHO better looking overall. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Actually, if I were seriously shopping for a 30 foot racer/cruiser I would pick
the CS-30 (and in fact almost bought one, before we settled on the tugboat). Good lordy. RB |
Loco's Express 30, a True Racer?
Hey Loco, You've gotta be LOCO the reason with Bubbles....He's NUTZ!
Do you run around popping kid's balloons too? RB |
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