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BUSH Debt
Every news source and I mean EVERY one reported that our national debt is at an
all time high. What's surprising is that the war was not a huge factor.His tax plan and spending ruined the economy. I hope everyone enjoyed those refund checks that the country couldn't afford. Gore was right from the beginning. He's right not to run. Why should he try to repair the Bush mess? RB |
BUSH Debt
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BUSH Debt
Oh, as though virulent Clinton-haters don't... ok.
"two wheels" wrote in message ... Be cautious of what the virulent Bush-haters do with numbers. They lie though their teeth. We had zero before, now we have a huge deficit, which will be around for as far as anyone can reasonable project. This is not good news. And, you'll be happy to know that the deficit forecasts keep coming down as every month passes. I know you'll be happy to hear that. two wheels |
BUSH Debt
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Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:12:27 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz" wrote: Oh, as though virulent Clinton-haters don't... ok. "two wheels" wrote in message ... Be cautious of what the virulent Bush-haters do with numbers. They lie though their teeth. We had zero before, now we have a huge deficit, which will be around for as far as anyone can reasonable project. This is not good news. Zero deficit, or even worse, surplus? You talk, er, write like that's a good thing. It's not. It just encourges the politicians to spend lots of money on their pet projects. Even Bush does it. His biggest pet project just happens to be reforming Iraq and Afganistan, and killing terrorists. It's an expensive hobby, but I think in the long run it's worth the cost. What's not worth the cost, is a non-means-tested Medicare prescription drug benefit. It will be just an ever-growing money pit that we'll regret very soon. But, thirty years from now, I don't think any sane person will regret invading Iraq in 2003. Especially not the Iraqis. two wheels -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBP5g9otCBA23eyf45EQKp5wCePA6HZtvZDjB845IpH6It84 3LZSgAoJVj 36tNIRLbbU6sHShLcBppf3KE =x5Xx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
BUSH Debt
But, thirty years from now, I don't think any sane person will
regret invading Iraq in 2003. At least plenty of people are not bothering to call it anything else but an invasion these days. This expensive and deadly war was brought about by WMD that did not exist. Once it was clear that the weapons were gone, the search began for paper work about WMD, and even that was old and little more than conversational material. I don't care about anything except the fact that Saddam and Bin Laden are still alive and issuing orders to kill Americans. Bush failed in every way. Capt RB |
BUSH Debt
"two wheels" wrote in message On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:12:27 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz" wrote: Oh, as though virulent Clinton-haters don't... ok. We had zero before, now we have a huge deficit, which will be around for as far as anyone can reasonable project. This is not good news. Zero deficit, or even worse, surplus? You talk, er, write like that's a good thing. It's not. It just encourges the politicians to spend lots of money on their pet projects. Even Bush does it. His biggest pet project just happens to be reforming Iraq and Afganistan, and killing terrorists. Excellent news!!! Which terrorist has he managed to kill? It's an expensive hobby, It certainly is very expensive! Especially when he spends billions of dollars fighting the wrong targets. but I think in the long run it's worth the cost. That is why he can kill thousands of innocent civilians, and simultaneously, create thousands of new terrorists. What's not worth the cost, is a non-means-tested Medicare prescription drug benefit. It will be just an ever-growing money pit that we'll regret very soon. But, thirty years from now, I don't think any sane person will regret invading Iraq in 2003. Especially not the Iraqis. You may well be right. It *is* possible that, in 30 years, you will still not be able to make the connection between American violence, and terrorist violence. Regards Donal -- |
BUSH Debt
Pulees... you're saying that it's better to run a deficit than
have a surplus, which could legitimately used for the 100s if not 1000s of social and infrastructure projects that we desperately need? Why do you equate surplus with pet projects? That's a "typical right wing" viewpoint that has nothing to do with reality. You're damn right it's an expensive hobby. That's all it is... a hobby. Get Saddam cause he tried to get dada. There was no immediate need to do that. Then, we would have time and another $87 billion to get the economy moving. Every 1st world country on earth has universal health care and it pretty much works. Our private system is ridiculously expensive and doesn't work any better. Even some state governments are buying perscription drugs from Canada now. Surely, they'll be sued because we certainly wouldn't want to inconvenience the drug companies and more than we'd want to inconvenience the oil companies or car companies. Bush and his administration have a stated agenda of gutting the Federal involvement in society. Orgs like the EPA and Dept. of Education are on the hit list. That's how they'll pay for Iraq. Heaven forbid that they actually increase the taxes on the wealthiest 10% of the population. We wouldn't want to inconvenience Ken Lay certainly! nor Dick Cheney's old pals at Haliburton. But I'll be damned if they don't want to limit free speech, imprison people without due process, and generally stomp all over the Bill of Rights in the name of terrorism. Is it possible for anyone to be able to justify getting librarians to reveal what people are reading?? Seems to me that you can get all the really bad stuff for free and without leaving your house right on the little box sitting in front of your face right now. Not to get on too much of a rant here, but it sure is sick and funny to have the Federal courts say that it's ok to call people during dinner for yet another solicitation to buy something, but it's not ok for me to go to a public library and read about nuclear weapons for fear of getting on some Fed list. Well, look who's in charge... Bush, a mostly stupid guy who only got where he is because of his father, and who was basically AWOL at one point, not to mention being a reformed drunk... and Cheney who failed out of Yale twice before finally getting through college at a second rate school, someone who didn't have one second of regret bailing out of the Vietnam draft. GOD FORBID we should get someone who has a decent education and the ability to think on his feet. And, don't think I'm talking about Clinton here. There are plenty of republicans who would qualify. Too bad Ahhhnold was born outside the US. He'd be the perfect president... all muscle no brain power... shoot 'em up, nuke 'em, hurry up and get us into yet another lousy spot. Thanks "two wheels" wrote in message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:12:27 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz" wrote: Oh, as though virulent Clinton-haters don't... ok. "two wheels" wrote in message ... Be cautious of what the virulent Bush-haters do with numbers. They lie though their teeth. We had zero before, now we have a huge deficit, which will be around for as far as anyone can reasonable project. This is not good news. Zero deficit, or even worse, surplus? You talk, er, write like that's a good thing. It's not. It just encourges the politicians to spend lots of money on their pet projects. Even Bush does it. His biggest pet project just happens to be reforming Iraq and Afganistan, and killing terrorists. It's an expensive hobby, but I think in the long run it's worth the cost. What's not worth the cost, is a non-means-tested Medicare prescription drug benefit. It will be just an ever-growing money pit that we'll regret very soon. But, thirty years from now, I don't think any sane person will regret invading Iraq in 2003. Especially not the Iraqis. two wheels -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBP5g9otCBA23eyf45EQKp5wCePA6HZtvZDjB845IpH6It84 3LZSgAoJVj 36tNIRLbbU6sHShLcBppf3KE =x5Xx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
BUSH Debt
So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well over
sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford, Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . .. Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so. Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea. Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things pointed at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger imbalances . .. . All you have to do to get rid of it is do like the last administration. Take it "off budget" and ignore it. Then you can claim a budget surplus. In point of fact there has never been a budget surplus when the books are balanced. Take a quick look at the Dept of Treasury website. End of conversation. The rest is just meaningless BS. As long as the majority of the nation thinks we are solvent, we are solvent (faith standard versus gold standard or rabbit skin standard or wampum standard or whatever else). Now of course the electronic symbols on computer tapes have been given the same status as printed money or (in the old days) coined money (not since what? 64 or 65 have we minted coins) or against tokens (look like coins but no intrinsic value). Let's suppose the situation gets really, really bad. Two types of things, make that three, will happen. Employment gets low enough there will be a war and employment will rise dramatically. Might be a shooting war, might be a war on poverty, might be a war against kangaroo rat infestations. Doesn't matter. Individual programs get too hard to handle then the original intent will be enforced. For Example Social Security is for " those who are destitute". Read the original law that established the program. Do away with those at the top who really don't need it and voila! No problem. Course if you retire on $25,000 or so plus a year plan on getting shafted. Finally look at the example of Nixon and Kissinger when they did away with the Johnson Debt. Simply create an artificial shortage of a basic commodity. Float scare rumours of $2.00a gallon gas, let the price float from 35 cents to nearer one dollar and then you can raise the taxes on fuel. Can't tax fifty cents on thirty five cent a gallon gas can you? Scare people into thinking $5 a gallon gas is around the corner . . .let it settle at $2 plus and bing taxes can now raise to $1 plus. Another name for this is debt devaluation or 'your investment ain't worth as much as you thought when you loaned out the money." That's another phrase for PERS or IRA or any other retirment fund investment. The whole thing is BS of the highest magnitude.. .. .and not worth worrying about. Want a real scare? The unfunded debt of the nation is now hovering around 50 trillion. Unfunded military retirement, unfunded Social Security, unfunded Railroad Retirement, unfunded Medicare and Medicaid. And that's only through the lifetime of the baby boomers. In truth, the only debt worth worrying about is your own. $10 Big Mac's anyone? What is worth worrying about is how much per foot is the cost of a sailboat and where in the world you can make what you have left last as long as you need it. Can anyone properly define the term "money?" MST The ONLY thing worth worrying about is when enough people say, "The emperor (government) has no clothes." Once enough people realize the government has not intention of paying their bills .. . . . . . . Well. . .no one said everything lasts forever . . But in the immortal words of Alfred E. "What me Worry?" |
BUSH Debt
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Hash: SHA1 When the economy is humming along, the deficit cures itself. That's what the tax cuts were for--to prime the economic pump. Tax and tariff policy is about the only power government has over the economy. They can slow down the economy with tax increases (as in California) or speed it up with tax cuts. That's it. two wheels http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...id=749&e=1&u=/ nm/20031030/bs_nm/economy_dc Economy Rocketed Ahead in 3rd Quarter By Tim Ahmann excerpt: - ---------------------- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy rocketed ahead at its fastest pace in more than 19 years in the third quarter of 2003 as consumers, their wallets fattened by tax cuts, went on a buying spree, an unexpectedly strong government report showed on Thursday. U.S. gross domestic product surged at a 7.2 percent annual rate in the July-September period, the Commerce Department said. It was the steepest climb since the first quarter of 1984 and more than double the second quarter's 3.3 percent rate. Three other reports on Thursday also suggested a firmer recovery was taking root -- new claims for jobless benefits and a help-wanted index suggested some stability in the labor market, while companies spent more on wages and benefits. The jump in GDP (news - web sites) growth, which also reflected a big gain in business spending, outstripped forecasts on Wall Street, where economists had looked for a rise closer to 6 percent. - ---------------------- On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:31:56 -0500, "Schoonertrash" wrote: So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well over sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford, Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . .. Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so. Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea. Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things pointed at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger imbalances . .. . [SNIP] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQE/oVKg0IEDbd7J/jkRAjIIAJ9iEQBsx59F7tzVYCdl0kchrdJIdwCg/KGK 71q1Rr2jByjpLPvlm6yZ/4Y= =TnEI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
BUSH Debt
The tax cuts are speeding up the economy and that's a fact.
The GDP grew at a rate of over 7% in the third quarter. This represents a rate only equaled 19 years ago after President Reagan's tax cuts. If you want a thriving economy just allow the people to keep their money. They will certainly spend it. S.Simon "two wheels" wrote in message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 When the economy is humming along, the deficit cures itself. That's what the tax cuts were for--to prime the economic pump. Tax and tariff policy is about the only power government has over the economy. They can slow down the economy with tax increases (as in California) or speed it up with tax cuts. That's it. two wheels http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...id=749&e=1&u=/ nm/20031030/bs_nm/economy_dc Economy Rocketed Ahead in 3rd Quarter By Tim Ahmann excerpt: - ---------------------- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy rocketed ahead at its fastest pace in more than 19 years in the third quarter of 2003 as consumers, their wallets fattened by tax cuts, went on a buying spree, an unexpectedly strong government report showed on Thursday. U.S. gross domestic product surged at a 7.2 percent annual rate in the July-September period, the Commerce Department said. It was the steepest climb since the first quarter of 1984 and more than double the second quarter's 3.3 percent rate. Three other reports on Thursday also suggested a firmer recovery was taking root -- new claims for jobless benefits and a help-wanted index suggested some stability in the labor market, while companies spent more on wages and benefits. The jump in GDP (news - web sites) growth, which also reflected a big gain in business spending, outstripped forecasts on Wall Street, where economists had looked for a rise closer to 6 percent. - ---------------------- On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:31:56 -0500, "Schoonertrash" wrote: So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well over sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford, Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . .. Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so. Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea. Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things pointed at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger imbalances . .. . [SNIP] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQE/oVKg0IEDbd7J/jkRAjIIAJ9iEQBsx59F7tzVYCdl0kchrdJIdwCg/KGK 71q1Rr2jByjpLPvlm6yZ/4Y= =TnEI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
BUSH Debt
The GDP grew at a rate of over 7% in the third quarter.
During the same period, an additional 41,000 jobs were lost. Don't forget wage freezes, salary cuts, factory closings and benefit losses...all at record highs. Capt RB |
BUSH Debt
And during the same period how many new jobs were created or restored? What
is the baseline? In and of itself the figures are meaningless without some sort of definition of meaning. Easy way to create jobs? Enforce the criminal alien laws and keep the jobs for Americans. Some, the anti-labor faction primarily, say that Americans will not do this sort of work. At criminal alien wage levels of course not. But do you REALLY think McDonalds is going to close up if they can't pay low rates to illegals? Not hardly. What will happen is the wages will rise to their natural level until the jobs are filled or some sort of machine will be installed to do the same job. Which translates into income for those who invent, manufacture, market, install and maintain those machines. Those who encourage the invasion of illegals willing to work for pennies (can't blame them actually) accomplish an artificial depression of wage levels, steal jobs from US Citizens, and encourage the use of illegal labor . They also cheat society out of tax income. Sales tax, income tax etc. etc. etc. All so people like Bobspit and his cronies can buy 99 cent burgers instead of spending $1.49. That's really COLD! Of course when you are personally selfish, uncaring and greedy promoting the 'general' welfare doesn't matter. Only 'self' matters. We need to promote family wage grade jobs for all of our citizens .. . not just the greedy few who would exploit their fellow citizens and the illegals. MST |
BUSH Debt
Yes, war spending has that effect!
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: The tax cuts are speeding up the economy and that's a fact. The GDP grew at a rate of over 7% in the third quarter. This represents a rate only equaled 19 years ago after President Reagan's tax cuts. If you want a thriving economy just allow the people to keep their money. They will certainly spend it. S.Simon "two wheels" wrote in message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 When the economy is humming along, the deficit cures itself. That's what the tax cuts were for--to prime the economic pump. Tax and tariff policy is about the only power government has over the economy. They can slow down the economy with tax increases (as in California) or speed it up with tax cuts. That's it. two wheels http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...id=749&e=1&u=/ nm/20031030/bs_nm/economy_dc Economy Rocketed Ahead in 3rd Quarter By Tim Ahmann excerpt: - ---------------------- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy rocketed ahead at its fastest pace in more than 19 years in the third quarter of 2003 as consumers, their wallets fattened by tax cuts, went on a buying spree, an unexpectedly strong government report showed on Thursday. U.S. gross domestic product surged at a 7.2 percent annual rate in the July-September period, the Commerce Department said. It was the steepest climb since the first quarter of 1984 and more than double the second quarter's 3.3 percent rate. Three other reports on Thursday also suggested a firmer recovery was taking root -- new claims for jobless benefits and a help-wanted index suggested some stability in the labor market, while companies spent more on wages and benefits. The jump in GDP (news - web sites) growth, which also reflected a big gain in business spending, outstripped forecasts on Wall Street, where economists had looked for a rise closer to 6 percent. - ---------------------- On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:31:56 -0500, "Schoonertrash" wrote: So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well over sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford, Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . .. Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so. Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea. Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things pointed at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger imbalances . .. . [SNIP] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQE/oVKg0IEDbd7J/jkRAjIIAJ9iEQBsx59F7tzVYCdl0kchrdJIdwCg/KGK 71q1Rr2jByjpLPvlm6yZ/4Y= =TnEI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
BUSH Debt
You need a refresher course in Macro Economics.
"two wheels" wrote in message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 When the economy is humming along, the deficit cures itself. That's what the tax cuts were for--to prime the economic pump. Tax and tariff policy is about the only power government has over the economy. They can slow down the economy with tax increases (as in California) or speed it up with tax cuts. That's it. two wheels http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...id=749&e=1&u=/ nm/20031030/bs_nm/economy_dc Economy Rocketed Ahead in 3rd Quarter By Tim Ahmann excerpt: - ---------------------- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy rocketed ahead at its fastest pace in more than 19 years in the third quarter of 2003 as consumers, their wallets fattened by tax cuts, went on a buying spree, an unexpectedly strong government report showed on Thursday. U.S. gross domestic product surged at a 7.2 percent annual rate in the July-September period, the Commerce Department said. It was the steepest climb since the first quarter of 1984 and more than double the second quarter's 3.3 percent rate. Three other reports on Thursday also suggested a firmer recovery was taking root -- new claims for jobless benefits and a help-wanted index suggested some stability in the labor market, while companies spent more on wages and benefits. The jump in GDP (news - web sites) growth, which also reflected a big gain in business spending, outstripped forecasts on Wall Street, where economists had looked for a rise closer to 6 percent. - ---------------------- On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:31:56 -0500, "Schoonertrash" wrote: So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well over sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford, Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . .. Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so. Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea. Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things pointed at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger imbalances . .. . [SNIP] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQE/oVKg0IEDbd7J/jkRAjIIAJ9iEQBsx59F7tzVYCdl0kchrdJIdwCg/KGK 71q1Rr2jByjpLPvlm6yZ/4Y= =TnEI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
BUSH Debt
Exactly. And, 3.5 million jobs have been lost in this
administration. More per annum I believe since Herbert Hoover was in office. wrote in message ... On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:32:58 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: The GDP grew at a rate of over 7% in the third quarter. During the same period, an additional 41,000 jobs were lost. BB |
BUSH Debt
And, don't forget the impossible situation with medical
insurance with 41 million people un- or under-insured. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... The GDP grew at a rate of over 7% in the third quarter. During the same period, an additional 41,000 jobs were lost. Don't forget wage freezes, salary cuts, factory closings and benefit losses...all at record highs. Capt RB |
BUSH Debt
So, you're saying that you would like to work as a farm worker?
Now if you're talking about exporting work to say India, then we might have a meaningful discussion. "Schoonertrash" wrote in message ... And during the same period how many new jobs were created or restored? What is the baseline? In and of itself the figures are meaningless without some sort of definition of meaning. Easy way to create jobs? Enforce the criminal alien laws and keep the jobs for Americans. Some, the anti-labor faction primarily, say that Americans will not do this sort of work. At criminal alien wage levels of course not. But do you REALLY think McDonalds is going to close up if they can't pay low rates to illegals? Not hardly. What will happen is the wages will rise to their natural level until the jobs are filled or some sort of machine will be installed to do the same job. Which translates into income for those who invent, manufacture, market, install and maintain those machines. Those who encourage the invasion of illegals willing to work for pennies (can't blame them actually) accomplish an artificial depression of wage levels, steal jobs from US Citizens, and encourage the use of illegal labor . They also cheat society out of tax income. Sales tax, income tax etc. etc. etc. All so people like Bobspit and his cronies can buy 99 cent burgers instead of spending $1.49. That's really COLD! Of course when you are personally selfish, uncaring and greedy promoting the 'general' welfare doesn't matter. Only 'self' matters. We need to promote family wage grade jobs for all of our citizens .. . not just the greedy few who would exploit their fellow citizens and the illegals. MST |
BUSH Debt
Funny thing is there is plenty of work in my industry. We couldn't fill all
the available jobs. Even offering a $3,000 sign up bonus and a 25% pay bonus didn't come close to filling the available jobs in one company. Course you have to be willing to actually work . . . . . .sticking point with some I'm sure. And where else could a high school graduate start out making $25K to $30K per year AFTER taxes and expenses plus room and board and medical thrown in no extra charge. A year or so later that income is up to $50K AFTER taxes and expenses. Start young and work your way up and salaries of $200,000 plus a year are not all that uncommon. Sad to say I'm not young but that's all right. For me it's never been better and the best part is all that I earn now is mine . . . and that was the best bonus of all! Three cheers for the GREAT economy! Smiling Michael |
BUSH Debt
I pay $230 a year for the supplement to my primary insurance. That policy
cost me 20 years of work initially to earn. I pay about $70 a year for Divers Assistance Network diving and medevac for any reason from anywhere in the world. Through the union I have complete coverage on yet another policy for 120 days of work the first year and 60 days minimum every year thereafter. So . . .lets see . . . .two complete policies plus the DAN costs me . . ..carry the 7 and .. oh yes . . . .$300 per year or $25 per month and at least 60 count them 60 whole days of work. 'course . . .you gotta be willing to actually work but in my industry there's plenty of it. And if I was to go down THAT road again insurance for family (any number from one to whatever) would be another $230 a year with no pre existing condition exclusions. WHAT insurance problems? What? Easy for me to say? hmmmmmm True! But then of course, not belonging to the privileged classes, I had to go out and work for it. It ain't rocket science. Have a nice day MST |
BUSH Debt
Sure . . . .and I've done so. Except for shearing sheep. But the point
is . . . .. that work will never pay enough to get people to do it as long as it's easier to import cheap, illegal labor from Mexico. But then that isn't the point. Artificially depressing the cost of labor so you can still get a 99 cent burger rather than paying a fair wage is what's important .. .. along with stuffing ballot boxes. Have a nice day!!! Remember California USED to be part of Mexico. Damn shame you all gave it back. MST |
BUSH Debt
Bingo! Hope springs eternal . . .. and a light bulb flickers bravely here
and there. . . |
BUSH Debt
That's the problem... many people work for it but never get
it. Or, they have it, use it, then get laid off and can't get it again for a variety of reasons, including the new employer not offering it, they can't afford it because rates have gone up, or they're denied coverage because of prior conditions. "Schoonertrash" wrote in message ... I pay $230 a year for the supplement to my primary insurance. That policy cost me 20 years of work initially to earn. I pay about $70 a year for Divers Assistance Network diving and medevac for any reason from anywhere in the world. Through the union I have complete coverage on yet another policy for 120 days of work the first year and 60 days minimum every year thereafter. So . . .lets see . . . .two complete policies plus the DAN costs me . . ..carry the 7 and .. oh yes . . . .$300 per year or $25 per month and at least 60 count them 60 whole days of work. 'course . . .you gotta be willing to actually work but in my industry there's plenty of it. And if I was to go down THAT road again insurance for family (any number from one to whatever) would be another $230 a year with no pre existing condition exclusions. WHAT insurance problems? What? Easy for me to say? hmmmmmm True! But then of course, not belonging to the privileged classes, I had to go out and work for it. It ain't rocket science. Have a nice day MST |
BUSH Debt
But you didn't say you enjoyed nor did you say you'd do
it again for even double what they currently pay farm workers.... "Schoonertrash" wrote in message ... Sure . . . .and I've done so. Except for shearing sheep. But the point is . . . .. that work will never pay enough to get people to do it as long as it's easier to import cheap, illegal labor from Mexico. But then that isn't the point. Artificially depressing the cost of labor so you can still get a 99 cent burger rather than paying a fair wage is what's important ... . along with stuffing ballot boxes. Have a nice day!!! Remember California USED to be part of Mexico. Damn shame you all gave it back. MST |
BUSH Debt
It is reflected in the pool of monies available for use in capitol
improvments, mortgages and such. Also if the fed has a huge defecit to pay on, things suffer, things like social security, law enforcment, and borderpatrol. "Schoonertrash" wrote in message ... So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well over sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford, Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . .. Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so. Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea. Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things pointed at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger imbalances . .. . All you have to do to get rid of it is do like the last administration. Take it "off budget" and ignore it. Then you can claim a budget surplus. In point of fact there has never been a budget surplus when the books are balanced. Take a quick look at the Dept of Treasury website. End of conversation. The rest is just meaningless BS. As long as the majority of the nation thinks we are solvent, we are solvent (faith standard versus gold standard or rabbit skin standard or wampum standard or whatever else). Now of course the electronic symbols on computer tapes have been given the same status as printed money or (in the old days) coined money (not since what? 64 or 65 have we minted coins) or against tokens (look like coins but no intrinsic value). Let's suppose the situation gets really, really bad. Two types of things, make that three, will happen. Employment gets low enough there will be a war and employment will rise dramatically. Might be a shooting war, might be a war on poverty, might be a war against kangaroo rat infestations. Doesn't matter. Individual programs get too hard to handle then the original intent will be enforced. For Example Social Security is for " those who are destitute". Read the original law that established the program. Do away with those at the top who really don't need it and voila! No problem. Course if you retire on $25,000 or so plus a year plan on getting shafted. Finally look at the example of Nixon and Kissinger when they did away with the Johnson Debt. Simply create an artificial shortage of a basic commodity. Float scare rumours of $2.00a gallon gas, let the price float from 35 cents to nearer one dollar and then you can raise the taxes on fuel. Can't tax fifty cents on thirty five cent a gallon gas can you? Scare people into thinking $5 a gallon gas is around the corner . . .let it settle at $2 plus and bing taxes can now raise to $1 plus. Another name for this is debt devaluation or 'your investment ain't worth as much as you thought when you loaned out the money." That's another phrase for PERS or IRA or any other retirment fund investment. The whole thing is BS of the highest magnitude.. .. .and not worth worrying about. Want a real scare? The unfunded debt of the nation is now hovering around 50 trillion. Unfunded military retirement, unfunded Social Security, unfunded Railroad Retirement, unfunded Medicare and Medicaid. And that's only through the lifetime of the baby boomers. In truth, the only debt worth worrying about is your own. $10 Big Mac's anyone? What is worth worrying about is how much per foot is the cost of a sailboat and where in the world you can make what you have left last as long as you need it. Can anyone properly define the term "money?" MST The ONLY thing worth worrying about is when enough people say, "The emperor (government) has no clothes." Once enough people realize the government has not intention of paying their bills .. . . . . . . Well. . .no one said everything lasts forever . . But in the immortal words of Alfred E. "What me Worry?" |
BUSH Debt
All that says is things are completly out of control.No economy can absorb
24% expansion a year. Hyper inflation is not unheard of in this day, just look at Argentina. Also if we are to blame Clinton for todays woes, we must give Jimmy Carter credit for the recovery then. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... The tax cuts are speeding up the economy and that's a fact. The GDP grew at a rate of over 7% in the third quarter. This represents a rate only equaled 19 years ago after President Reagan's tax cuts. If you want a thriving economy just allow the people to keep their money. They will certainly spend it. S.Simon "two wheels" wrote in message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 When the economy is humming along, the deficit cures itself. That's what the tax cuts were for--to prime the economic pump. Tax and tariff policy is about the only power government has over the economy. They can slow down the economy with tax increases (as in California) or speed it up with tax cuts. That's it. two wheels http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...id=749&e=1&u=/ nm/20031030/bs_nm/economy_dc Economy Rocketed Ahead in 3rd Quarter By Tim Ahmann excerpt: - ---------------------- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy rocketed ahead at its fastest pace in more than 19 years in the third quarter of 2003 as consumers, their wallets fattened by tax cuts, went on a buying spree, an unexpectedly strong government report showed on Thursday. U.S. gross domestic product surged at a 7.2 percent annual rate in the July-September period, the Commerce Department said. It was the steepest climb since the first quarter of 1984 and more than double the second quarter's 3.3 percent rate. Three other reports on Thursday also suggested a firmer recovery was taking root -- new claims for jobless benefits and a help-wanted index suggested some stability in the labor market, while companies spent more on wages and benefits. The jump in GDP (news - web sites) growth, which also reflected a big gain in business spending, outstripped forecasts on Wall Street, where economists had looked for a rise closer to 6 percent. - ---------------------- On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:31:56 -0500, "Schoonertrash" wrote: So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well over sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford, Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . .. Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so. Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea. Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things pointed at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger imbalances . .. . [SNIP] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQE/oVKg0IEDbd7J/jkRAjIIAJ9iEQBsx59F7tzVYCdl0kchrdJIdwCg/KGK 71q1Rr2jByjpLPvlm6yZ/4Y= =TnEI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
BUSH Debt
and military readiness. But it does not affect congressional salaries.
|
BUSH Debt
The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by
the Government.... everyone is covered. CM "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... | That's the problem... many people work for it but never get | it. Or, they have it, use it, then get laid off and can't get it | again for a variety of reasons, including the new employer | not offering it, they can't afford it because rates have gone | up, or they're denied coverage because of prior conditions. | | "Schoonertrash" wrote in message | ... | I pay $230 a year for the supplement to my primary insurance. That policy | cost me 20 years of work initially to earn. I pay about $70 a year for | Divers Assistance Network diving and medevac for any reason from anywhere | in | the world. Through the union I have complete coverage on yet another | policy | for 120 days of work the first year and 60 days minimum every year | thereafter. So . . .lets see . . . .two complete policies plus the DAN | costs me . . ..carry the 7 and .. oh yes . . . .$300 per year or $25 | per | month and at least 60 count them 60 whole days of work. 'course . . ..you | gotta be willing to actually work but in my industry there's plenty of it. | And if I was to go down THAT road again insurance for family (any number | from one to whatever) would be another $230 a year with no pre existing | condition exclusions. | | WHAT insurance problems? | | What? Easy for me to say? hmmmmmm True! But then of course, not | belonging to the privileged classes, I had to go out and work for it. | | It ain't rocket science. | | Have a nice day | | MST | | | | |
BUSH Debt
"Capt. Mooron" wrote:
The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. What? Free? Me thinks not CM, why do you suppose we have the privilege of paying some of the highest taxes in the world? You and I and the rest of the middle class pay the brunt of the cost. Cheers Marty |
BUSH Debt
Eventually . . .if the examples of Canada and England are to be followed. I
recall the medical community in British Columbia shutting down and heading South for the winter whent he funds ran out. I also recall selling a lot of supplemental, high deductible catastrophic care insurance policies to Canadians. My largest customer base by far. Your example is truly great . . ..especially if you are more equal than other pigs. My $230 a year supplement, for example, is military retirement insurance. The base plan (no charge except 20 years of work) is so good it's not accepted in many places because of the difficulty in getting paid in something reasonably approaching a timely manner. That's why I add the supplement, DAN, and union insurance. To the extent it does work the gov't insurance is fine . . .. .but then I have all of you paying for it. A large economic base is needed to support a small amount of users. Ask the taxpayers of Oregon how well it works even when prioritized and limited. Sorry . . . .the theory does not match the reality and the number one reason for increase in cost of medicine is government intervention. Do you really think we union workers are going to give up our good coverage for another failed government program? Even the government union workers aren't that silly. MST So when you go to the check out line and are asked "Paper or Plastic?" Answer them, "Doesn't matter I'm bi-sack-ual." |
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Not completely free, but an excellent example of what we should
look at when reformulating ours. Ours does have some benefits... more hi-end research is funded and there is more disclosure of problems to name two. "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ... The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. CM "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... | That's the problem... many people work for it but never get | it. Or, they have it, use it, then get laid off and can't get it | again for a variety of reasons, including the new employer | not offering it, they can't afford it because rates have gone | up, or they're denied coverage because of prior conditions. | | "Schoonertrash" wrote in message | ... | I pay $230 a year for the supplement to my primary insurance. That policy | cost me 20 years of work initially to earn. I pay about $70 a year for | Divers Assistance Network diving and medevac for any reason from anywhere | in | the world. Through the union I have complete coverage on yet another | policy | for 120 days of work the first year and 60 days minimum every year | thereafter. So . . .lets see . . . .two complete policies plus the DAN | costs me . . ..carry the 7 and .. oh yes . . . .$300 per year or $25 | per | month and at least 60 count them 60 whole days of work. 'course . . .you | gotta be willing to actually work but in my industry there's plenty of it. | And if I was to go down THAT road again insurance for family (any number | from one to whatever) would be another $230 a year with no pre existing | condition exclusions. | | WHAT insurance problems? | | What? Easy for me to say? hmmmmmm True! But then of course, not | belonging to the privileged classes, I had to go out and work for it. | | It ain't rocket science. | | Have a nice day | | MST | | | | |
BUSH Debt
remember the golden rule, "He who controls the gold rules"
"Schoonertrash" wrote in message ... and military readiness. But it does not affect congressional salaries. |
BUSH Debt
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron"
wrote this crap: The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. And everyone pays. Hero@Horvath I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. |
BUSH Debt
And not only does everybody pay they pay out the ass
not only for medical care but for the giant and ever- growing government bureaucracy that develops around so-called free health care. If you want health care then step up to the plate and pay for it yourself. Since when is it MY job to pay for your bad health most of which is self-inflicted by bad habits you're too lazy or too stupid to correct. S.Simon "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron" wrote this crap: The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. And everyone pays. Hero@Horvath I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. |
BUSH Debt
In Horass' case, I agree. He should pay for his social diseases
himself. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... And not only does everybody pay they pay out the ass not only for medical care but for the giant and ever- growing government bureaucracy that develops around so-called free health care. If you want health care then step up to the plate and pay for it yourself. Since when is it MY job to pay for your bad health most of which is self-inflicted by bad habits you're too lazy or too stupid to correct. S.Simon "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron" wrote this crap: The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. And everyone pays. Hero@Horvath I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. |
BUSH Debt
He's safe. He wears giant condoms on his tits. S.Simon "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... In Horass' case, I agree. He should pay for his social diseases himself. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... And not only does everybody pay they pay out the ass not only for medical care but for the giant and ever- growing government bureaucracy that develops around so-called free health care. If you want health care then step up to the plate and pay for it yourself. Since when is it MY job to pay for your bad health most of which is self-inflicted by bad habits you're too lazy or too stupid to correct. S.Simon "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron" wrote this crap: The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. And everyone pays. Hero@Horvath I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. |
BUSH Debt
Yeah that's right ... you guys are so friggin busy suing your medical
practitioners that they are forced to quadruple their normal fees just to cover the insurance premiums. No wonder you couldn't afford national Medicare! CM "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... | And not only does everybody pay they pay out the ass | not only for medical care but for the giant and ever- | growing government bureaucracy that develops around | so-called free health care. | | If you want health care then step up to the plate and | pay for it yourself. Since when is it MY job to pay | for your bad health most of which is self-inflicted | by bad habits you're too lazy or too stupid to correct. | | S.Simon | | | "Horvath" wrote in message ... | On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron" | wrote this crap: | | The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by | the Government.... everyone is covered. | | And everyone pays. | | | Hero@Horvath | | I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money | on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. | | |
BUSH Debt
Ok... thanks for sharing.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ... He's safe. He wears giant condoms on his tits. S.Simon "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... In Horass' case, I agree. He should pay for his social diseases himself. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... And not only does everybody pay they pay out the ass not only for medical care but for the giant and ever- growing government bureaucracy that develops around so-called free health care. If you want health care then step up to the plate and pay for it yourself. Since when is it MY job to pay for your bad health most of which is self-inflicted by bad habits you're too lazy or too stupid to correct. S.Simon "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron" wrote this crap: The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. And everyone pays. Hero@Horvath I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. |
BUSH Debt
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:00:13 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote this crap: And not only does everybody pay they pay out the ass not only for medical care but for the giant and ever- growing government bureaucracy that develops around so-called free health care. If you want health care then step up to the plate and pay for it yourself. Since when is it MY job to pay for your bad health most of which is self-inflicted by bad habits you're too lazy or too stupid to correct. S.Simon Don't bitch at me. I agree with you. "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron" wrote this crap: The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. And everyone pays. Hero@Horvath I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. |
BUSH Debt
Why not? You're a bitch aren't you?
"Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:00:13 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote this crap: And not only does everybody pay they pay out the ass not only for medical care but for the giant and ever- growing government bureaucracy that develops around so-called free health care. If you want health care then step up to the plate and pay for it yourself. Since when is it MY job to pay for your bad health most of which is self-inflicted by bad habits you're too lazy or too stupid to correct. S.Simon Don't bitch at me. I agree with you. "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:12:55 -0400, "Capt. Mooron" wrote this crap: The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by the Government.... everyone is covered. And everyone pays. Hero@Horvath I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste. |
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