BoatBanter.com

BoatBanter.com (https://www.boatbanter.com/)
-   ASA (https://www.boatbanter.com/asa/)
-   -   Perception (https://www.boatbanter.com/asa/17917-perception.html)

Donal October 14th 03 06:37 PM

Perception
 

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Hey stupid. The 'bridge' does not exist in the Rules with
respect to keeping a lookout at all times. Lamers using
dangerous excuses and practices like maintaining that
you can't see a vessel if the vessel can't see the bridge
shows you are unqualified to be a captain.


Absolutely correct. A friend, who is in the merchant marine has told me
that someone is always sent to the bow in thick fog.

I'm surprised that otn is unaware of good practise!


Regards


Donal
--



otnmbrd October 15th 03 05:40 AM

Perception
 
ROFL ...... shhhhhhhhhh

otn

Donal wrote:
"otnmbrd" wrote in message
. net...

That's why you are and probably always will be, an amateur, Donal.
Anyone with any experience and common sense would have learned to expect
the unexpected and always keep the possibilities in mind, no matter how
slight the chances.




It is very refreshing to see that you acknowledge that a motor vessel
reducing it's speed to bare steerageway would be "unexpected".



Regards


Donal
--





otn

Donal wrote:


"Shen44" wrote in message
...


OOPS ....Forgot one:

What if the sailboat comes out of the fog (and can see the motor vessel)

and


finds itself overtaking the motor vessel, because the motor vessel has

reduced


speed to bare steerageway?


I'd be much more concerned about the risk of collision with a low flying
pig!

Regards


Donal
--







otnmbrd October 15th 03 05:49 AM

Perception
 
Hey stupid. The bridge is where the ship is maneuvered from. One does
not make maneuvers based on scanty information. One make maneuvers,
after the lookout reports the sighting, and some idea as to the movement
of the other vessel can be determined.
Sheesh, you are such an inexperienced piece of junk......knowing you are
there, and knowing what you are doing and how to react to it, are two
different things.
You haven't got the common sense or intelligence of one of my Mastiff's,
and they are well known for a low brain cell count.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

Hey stupid. The 'bridge' does not exist in the Rules with
respect to keeping a lookout at all times. Lamers using
dangerous excuses and practices like maintaining that
you can't see a vessel if the vessel can't see the bridge
shows you are unqualified to be a captain.

Read the Rules pertaining to keeping a lookout.
It says nothing about keeping a lookout on the
bridge only. You are required to be aware of
other vessels around you even if it requires posting
a man or men at the bow, at the stern and any place
else not visible from the bridge.

You really embarrassed yourself this time. What an
ignoramous!

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message t...

It doesn't. Assume that they can't until it would be obvious to even a
"Simple Simon" that they couldn't use "restricted visibility" as an
excuse for not obeying the rules.

If you can't see the bridge, the bridge cannot see you.

otn

Wally wrote:


otnmbrd wrote:



If BOTH vessels are in sight of each other then visual rules apply. If
only one or neither vessel is in sight of the other, then the rules
for restricted visibility apply and BOTH vessels must navigate with
extreme caution until they are clear of each other.


How does the vessel that can see the other know that the other can see it?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.








otnmbrd October 15th 03 05:51 AM

Perception
 
Very much aware, but also aware that the information supplied, is only
the beginning of the process to react.

otn

Donal wrote:

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

Hey stupid. The 'bridge' does not exist in the Rules with
respect to keeping a lookout at all times. Lamers using
dangerous excuses and practices like maintaining that
you can't see a vessel if the vessel can't see the bridge
shows you are unqualified to be a captain.



Absolutely correct. A friend, who is in the merchant marine has told me
that someone is always sent to the bow in thick fog.

I'm surprised that otn is unaware of good practise!


Regards


Donal
--




Simple Simon October 15th 03 06:49 PM

Perception
 
Slipperier than an eel you are. Slippery but not much
smarter than one, unfortunately. Your statement about
if a vessel can't see the bridge of a ship then the ship
cannot see the vessel was stupid, myopic, arrogant,
ignorant, dangerous and unfortunate for you.

It was a disgraceful thing for a licensed Master who claims
to be in charge of large ships to maintain. It shows the
arrogant attitude big ships have towards smaller vessels.
It is the attitude that results in collisions and loss of life.
It is the attitude the COLREGS were written to squash.

Shame on you for requiring a mere 25GT Near Coastal
Master to point out how much of an inept captain you really
are.

S.Simon - keeps a proper watch in all directions


"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...
Hey stupid. The bridge is where the ship is maneuvered from. One does
not make maneuvers based on scanty information. One make maneuvers,
after the lookout reports the sighting, and some idea as to the movement
of the other vessel can be determined.
Sheesh, you are such an inexperienced piece of junk......knowing you are
there, and knowing what you are doing and how to react to it, are two
different things.
You haven't got the common sense or intelligence of one of my Mastiff's,
and they are well known for a low brain cell count.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

Hey stupid. The 'bridge' does not exist in the Rules with
respect to keeping a lookout at all times. Lamers using
dangerous excuses and practices like maintaining that
you can't see a vessel if the vessel can't see the bridge
shows you are unqualified to be a captain.

Read the Rules pertaining to keeping a lookout.
It says nothing about keeping a lookout on the
bridge only. You are required to be aware of
other vessels around you even if it requires posting
a man or men at the bow, at the stern and any place
else not visible from the bridge.

You really embarrassed yourself this time. What an
ignoramous!

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message t...

It doesn't. Assume that they can't until it would be obvious to even a
"Simple Simon" that they couldn't use "restricted visibility" as an
excuse for not obeying the rules.

If you can't see the bridge, the bridge cannot see you.

otn

Wally wrote:


otnmbrd wrote:



If BOTH vessels are in sight of each other then visual rules apply. If
only one or neither vessel is in sight of the other, then the rules
for restricted visibility apply and BOTH vessels must navigate with
extreme caution until they are clear of each other.


How does the vessel that can see the other know that the other can see it?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.










otnmbrd October 16th 03 04:28 AM

Perception
 
1. Read rule 7 (c)
2. Your post below shows just how stupid and inexperienced you are.
3. Keep trying Neal, but know that we all consider you an incompetent,
inexperienced danger to us all.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

Slipperier than an eel you are. Slippery but not much
smarter than one, unfortunately. Your statement about
if a vessel can't see the bridge of a ship then the ship
cannot see the vessel was stupid, myopic, arrogant,
ignorant, dangerous and unfortunate for you.

It was a disgraceful thing for a licensed Master who claims
to be in charge of large ships to maintain. It shows the
arrogant attitude big ships have towards smaller vessels.
It is the attitude that results in collisions and loss of life.
It is the attitude the COLREGS were written to squash.

Shame on you for requiring a mere 25GT Near Coastal
Master to point out how much of an inept captain you really
are.

S.Simon - keeps a proper watch in all direction



Simple Simon October 16th 03 04:00 PM

Perception
 


Rule 7 (c) states:

c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of
scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

What's this got to do with keeping a proper lookout by
eyes and ears?

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?

You still disgraced yourself with your arrogant statement
saying if a vessel cannot see the bridge then it cannot
be seen. This statement is dangerously ignorant and
shows a total disregard for keeping a proper lookout.

S.Simon - exposing yet another pretend captain


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
1. Read rule 7 (c)
2. Your post below shows just how stupid and inexperienced you are.
3. Keep trying Neal, but know that we all consider you an incompetent,
inexperienced danger to us all.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

Slipperier than an eel you are. Slippery but not much
smarter than one, unfortunately. Your statement about
if a vessel can't see the bridge of a ship then the ship
cannot see the vessel was stupid, myopic, arrogant,
ignorant, dangerous and unfortunate for you.

It was a disgraceful thing for a licensed Master who claims
to be in charge of large ships to maintain. It shows the
arrogant attitude big ships have towards smaller vessels.
It is the attitude that results in collisions and loss of life.
It is the attitude the COLREGS were written to squash.

Shame on you for requiring a mere 25GT Near Coastal
Master to point out how much of an inept captain you really
are.

S.Simon - keeps a proper watch in all direction





otnmbrd October 16th 03 06:29 PM

Perception
 
comments interspersed:

Simple Simon wrote:

Rule 7 (c) states:

c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of
scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

What's this got to do with keeping a proper lookout by
eyes and ears?


What it has to do with it, is what you do with the information a lookout
gives you, and what YOU do about course changes in a fog, based on
scanty sound information.

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?


BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)

You still disgraced yourself with your arrogant statement
saying if a vessel cannot see the bridge then it cannot
be seen. This statement is dangerously ignorant and
shows a total disregard for keeping a proper lookout.


The above statement is typically stupid. I could easily have said "if
you cannot see the bow or bow lookout", but anyone with any intelligence
would have understood that .... this excludes you, of course. It also
shows you're typical lack of experience in not understanding the
"mechanics" of fog and how someone higher up would not necessarily be
able to see something lower down.... and vice versa.

otn


Simple Simon October 16th 03 06:49 PM

Perception
 

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?


BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon



Simple Simon October 16th 03 06:53 PM

Perception
 

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
You still disgraced yourself with your arrogant statement
saying if a vessel cannot see the bridge then it cannot
be seen. This statement is dangerously ignorant and
shows a total disregard for keeping a proper lookout.


The above statement is typically stupid. I could easily have said "if
you cannot see the bow or bow lookout", but anyone with any intelligence
would have understood that .... this excludes you, of course. It also
shows you're typical lack of experience in not understanding the
"mechanics" of fog and how someone higher up would not necessarily be
able to see something lower down.... and vice versa.


But you didn't say that! What you said indicated you think it's
the other vessel's responsibility to make itself visible to the
bridge or assume she's not being seen.

I say, in most cases, even making yourself visible to the bridge
of a big ship does no increase your chances of being seen mostly
because nobody in the briged pays much attention. Why bother?
A little sailboat won't even make a small dent in a ship as it's
being run down.

That's the attitude you comment convey so loudly and clearly!
That's what I object to hearing a so-called professional saying.

S.Simon



Jonathan Ganz October 16th 03 07:14 PM

Perception
 
Lipitor is for cholesterol, fyi. It's not about habits, since the vast
majority of those with high cholresterol can't significantly lower it
with diet.

Prilosec is for acid reflux, which also isn't affected by diet.

Stick to what you know... assuming you can find it.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?


BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon





Simple Simon October 16th 03 07:36 PM

Perception
 
Hey silly, high cholesterol is caused by eating too much
fat and being too fat. Eating the right food, as I suggested,
is proven to lower cholesterol. Getting plenty or exercise
also lowers cholesterol.

The same goes for acid reflux (a fancy name for heartburn).
Eating less food and eating the right food will eliminate acid
reflux.

But, noooooooooo! People like you and Otn would rather
pop expensive pills than eliminate their bad habits that are
causing the problem in the first place. Go figure!

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Lipitor is for cholesterol, fyi. It's not about habits, since the vast
majority of those with high cholresterol can't significantly lower it
with diet.

Prilosec is for acid reflux, which also isn't affected by diet.

Stick to what you know... assuming you can find it.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?

BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon







otnmbrd October 16th 03 07:54 PM

Perception
 
ROFL .... Nother subject you know little about.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?


BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon




otnmbrd October 16th 03 07:58 PM

Perception
 
Comments interspersed:

Simple Simon wrote:

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

You still disgraced yourself with your arrogant statement
saying if a vessel cannot see the bridge then it cannot
be seen. This statement is dangerously ignorant and
shows a total disregard for keeping a proper lookout.


The above statement is typically stupid. I could easily have said "if
you cannot see the bow or bow lookout", but anyone with any intelligence
would have understood that .... this excludes you, of course. It also
shows you're typical lack of experience in not understanding the
"mechanics" of fog and how someone higher up would not necessarily be
able to see something lower down.... and vice versa.



But you didn't say that! What you said indicated you think it's
the other vessel's responsibility to make itself visible to the
bridge or assume she's not being seen.


The above is a prime example of why we question your reasoning ability.
How could you possibly come to that stupid conclusion? It's a question
of ones ability to see, not responsibility to be seen.

I say, in most cases, even making yourself visible to the bridge
of a big ship does no increase your chances of being seen mostly
because nobody in the briged pays much attention. Why bother?
A little sailboat won't even make a small dent in a ship as it's
being run down.


Stupid waste of typing time.

That's the attitude you comment convey so loudly and clearly!
That's what I object to hearing a so-called professional saying.


It could only have conveyed that attitude to someone of your limited
abilities!

otn


Jonathan Ganz October 16th 03 09:39 PM

Perception
 
No. It isn't necessarily, nor is it true in most cases. For example,
I know a guy who has extremely low cholesterol. In fact, it's so
low that it's dangerous. Most people who are given lipitor can not
control the high cholesterol with diet.

Acid reflux has nothing to do with diet. It has to do with genetics
and physiology.

You know nothing about these conditions, you're demonstrating this,
so why not shut up now before you become even more of a laughing
stock.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Hey silly, high cholesterol is caused by eating too much
fat and being too fat. Eating the right food, as I suggested,
is proven to lower cholesterol. Getting plenty or exercise
also lowers cholesterol.

The same goes for acid reflux (a fancy name for heartburn).
Eating less food and eating the right food will eliminate acid
reflux.

But, noooooooooo! People like you and Otn would rather
pop expensive pills than eliminate their bad habits that are
causing the problem in the first place. Go figure!

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...
Lipitor is for cholesterol, fyi. It's not about habits, since the vast
majority of those with high cholresterol can't significantly lower it
with diet.

Prilosec is for acid reflux, which also isn't affected by diet.

Stick to what you know... assuming you can find it.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?

BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture,

not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon









Jonathan Ganz October 16th 03 09:51 PM

Perception
 
Here are some references, so you won't look like a total idiot
next time:

Lipitor:

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/atorvastatin_ids.htm

Atorvastatin is indicated as an adjunct to diet to reduce elevated total-C,
LDL-C, apo B, and TG levels in patients with primary hypercholesterolemia
(heterozygous familial and nonfamilial) and mixed dyslipidemia (Fredrickson
Types IIa and IIb).

Atorvastatin is indcated as adjunctive therapy to diet for the treatment of
patients with elevated serum triglyceride levels (Fredrickson Type IV).

Atorvastatin is indicated for the treatment of patients with primary
dysbetalipoproteinemia (Fredrickson Type III) who do not respond adequately
to diet.

Atorvastatin is also indicated to reduce total-C and LDL-C in patients with
homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia as an adjunct to other
lipid-lowering treatments (e.g., LDL apheresis) or if such treatments are
unavailable.

Therapy with lipid-altering agents should be a component of
multiple-risk-factor intervention in individuals at increased risk for
atherosclerotic vascular disease due to hypercholesterolemia. Lipid-altering
agents should be used in addition to a diet restricted in saturated fat and
cholesterol only when the response to diet and other nonpharmacological
measures has been inadequate (see National Cholesterol Education Program
(NCEP) Guidelines, summarized in TABLE 5).

Acid Reflux:

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic857.htm

Note that certain foods and obesity *can* decrease the lower esophageal
sphincter (LES) pressure, but there is no guarantee.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?


BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon





Simple Simon October 16th 03 10:04 PM

Perception
 
Ganz, YOU are uninformed and just another victim of
modern medicine and the drug industry walking hand
in hand down the primrose path.

Read everything on this link and do some original
thinking of you own for once. Stop being duped!

http://www.molocure.com/gerd.shtml?s...rd=acid_reflux

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
No. It isn't necessarily, nor is it true in most cases. For example,
I know a guy who has extremely low cholesterol. In fact, it's so
low that it's dangerous. Most people who are given lipitor can not
control the high cholesterol with diet.

Acid reflux has nothing to do with diet. It has to do with genetics
and physiology.

You know nothing about these conditions, you're demonstrating this,
so why not shut up now before you become even more of a laughing
stock.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Hey silly, high cholesterol is caused by eating too much
fat and being too fat. Eating the right food, as I suggested,
is proven to lower cholesterol. Getting plenty or exercise
also lowers cholesterol.

The same goes for acid reflux (a fancy name for heartburn).
Eating less food and eating the right food will eliminate acid
reflux.

But, noooooooooo! People like you and Otn would rather
pop expensive pills than eliminate their bad habits that are
causing the problem in the first place. Go figure!

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...
Lipitor is for cholesterol, fyi. It's not about habits, since the vast
majority of those with high cholresterol can't significantly lower it
with diet.

Prilosec is for acid reflux, which also isn't affected by diet.

Stick to what you know... assuming you can find it.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?

BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture,

not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon











Simple Simon October 16th 03 10:14 PM

Perception
 
You should not believe anything the drug industry has to
say in defense of its drugs. Of course they're gonna paint
a rosey picture. They are in business to sell drugs and
selling drugs to lifetime patients is big business.

Stop for a minute and divorce yourself from advertising
hype from the drug industry. Ask yourself why acid
reflux (heartburn) is such a big problem today while
it was not such a big deal fifty years ago? The answer
is because people aren't eating right anymore. They
eat all sorts of awful crap and then they take a pill
to mask the symptoms this awful diet causes.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Here are some references, so you won't look like a total idiot
next time:

Lipitor:

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/atorvastatin_ids.htm

Atorvastatin is indicated as an adjunct to diet to reduce elevated total-C,
LDL-C, apo B, and TG levels in patients with primary hypercholesterolemia
(heterozygous familial and nonfamilial) and mixed dyslipidemia (Fredrickson
Types IIa and IIb).

Atorvastatin is indcated as adjunctive therapy to diet for the treatment of
patients with elevated serum triglyceride levels (Fredrickson Type IV).

Atorvastatin is indicated for the treatment of patients with primary
dysbetalipoproteinemia (Fredrickson Type III) who do not respond adequately
to diet.

Atorvastatin is also indicated to reduce total-C and LDL-C in patients with
homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia as an adjunct to other
lipid-lowering treatments (e.g., LDL apheresis) or if such treatments are
unavailable.

Therapy with lipid-altering agents should be a component of
multiple-risk-factor intervention in individuals at increased risk for
atherosclerotic vascular disease due to hypercholesterolemia. Lipid-altering
agents should be used in addition to a diet restricted in saturated fat and
cholesterol only when the response to diet and other nonpharmacological
measures has been inadequate (see National Cholesterol Education Program
(NCEP) Guidelines, summarized in TABLE 5).

Acid Reflux:

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic857.htm

Note that certain foods and obesity *can* decrease the lower esophageal
sphincter (LES) pressure, but there is no guarantee.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?

BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon







Jonathan Ganz October 17th 03 12:04 AM

Perception
 
Sure. Whatever... I certainly believe a private company over
research institues and MDs.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Ganz, YOU are uninformed and just another victim of
modern medicine and the drug industry walking hand
in hand down the primrose path.

Read everything on this link and do some original
thinking of you own for once. Stop being duped!

http://www.molocure.com/gerd.shtml?s...rd=acid_reflux

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...
No. It isn't necessarily, nor is it true in most cases. For example,
I know a guy who has extremely low cholesterol. In fact, it's so
low that it's dangerous. Most people who are given lipitor can not
control the high cholesterol with diet.

Acid reflux has nothing to do with diet. It has to do with genetics
and physiology.

You know nothing about these conditions, you're demonstrating this,
so why not shut up now before you become even more of a laughing
stock.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Hey silly, high cholesterol is caused by eating too much
fat and being too fat. Eating the right food, as I suggested,
is proven to lower cholesterol. Getting plenty or exercise
also lowers cholesterol.

The same goes for acid reflux (a fancy name for heartburn).
Eating less food and eating the right food will eliminate acid
reflux.

But, noooooooooo! People like you and Otn would rather
pop expensive pills than eliminate their bad habits that are
causing the problem in the first place. Go figure!

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...
Lipitor is for cholesterol, fyi. It's not about habits, since the

vast
majority of those with high cholresterol can't significantly lower

it
with diet.

Prilosec is for acid reflux, which also isn't affected by diet.

Stick to what you know... assuming you can find it.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?

BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid

lecture,
not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon













Jonathan Ganz October 17th 03 12:05 AM

Perception
 
Gee, now that's some interesting news. Are you actually
aware of the situation 50 years ago or is this wishful thinking.
I'm betting the latter. There were no "good old days" for
ailments.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
You should not believe anything the drug industry has to
say in defense of its drugs. Of course they're gonna paint
a rosey picture. They are in business to sell drugs and
selling drugs to lifetime patients is big business.

Stop for a minute and divorce yourself from advertising
hype from the drug industry. Ask yourself why acid
reflux (heartburn) is such a big problem today while
it was not such a big deal fifty years ago? The answer
is because people aren't eating right anymore. They
eat all sorts of awful crap and then they take a pill
to mask the symptoms this awful diet causes.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...
Here are some references, so you won't look like a total idiot
next time:

Lipitor:

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/atorvastatin_ids.htm

Atorvastatin is indicated as an adjunct to diet to reduce elevated

total-C,
LDL-C, apo B, and TG levels in patients with primary

hypercholesterolemia
(heterozygous familial and nonfamilial) and mixed dyslipidemia

(Fredrickson
Types IIa and IIb).

Atorvastatin is indcated as adjunctive therapy to diet for the treatment

of
patients with elevated serum triglyceride levels (Fredrickson Type IV).

Atorvastatin is indicated for the treatment of patients with primary
dysbetalipoproteinemia (Fredrickson Type III) who do not respond

adequately
to diet.

Atorvastatin is also indicated to reduce total-C and LDL-C in patients

with
homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia as an adjunct to other
lipid-lowering treatments (e.g., LDL apheresis) or if such treatments

are
unavailable.

Therapy with lipid-altering agents should be a component of
multiple-risk-factor intervention in individuals at increased risk for
atherosclerotic vascular disease due to hypercholesterolemia.

Lipid-altering
agents should be used in addition to a diet restricted in saturated fat

and
cholesterol only when the response to diet and other nonpharmacological
measures has been inadequate (see National Cholesterol Education Program
(NCEP) Guidelines, summarized in TABLE 5).

Acid Reflux:

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic857.htm

Note that certain foods and obesity *can* decrease the lower esophageal
sphincter (LES) pressure, but there is no guarantee.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message

nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?

BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture,

not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon









Martin Baxter October 17th 03 12:42 PM

Perception
 
Simple Simon wrote:

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

What kind of drugs are you on, anyhow?


BG Lipitor and prilosec .... you? (EG save the stupid lecture, not
interested)


Aren't those for heartburn? If so get rid of 'em and start eating
right and you won't have heartburn.

Typical American attitude - don't bother changing bad habits,
simply counteract them with drugs.

S.Simon


Neal, ever heard of the H-pylori bacteriun?

Cheers
Marty


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com