Sorry Oz I'm not impressed by this. The righting moment curves (Macsurf
hahahhahahaha) show that he has no idea about stability. That he should
publish such a blatently incorrect curve is astonishing. His experince
is no doubt limited to fair weather -the fact that he considers a
sinusoidal wave system shows that. I maintain that a cat will roll if
caught beam on to serious gray beard. That is why your *only* optioin is
to run off.

Cheers MC

Oz1 wrote:

Nav, you need to read this
http://www.steamradio.com/JSYD/Articles/NESTalk.html

I'll get back to you shortly, got a dental appointment.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:30:08 +1200, The_navigator_©
wrote:



I take your point about racers pushing it (racing monos also get
broken) but the fact is I've seen waves with near sheer faces that
would surely flip a cat -but not a mono. While you may get knocked on
your ear you are nowhere near capsize and even if you do, with the wash
boards in you'll come straight back up (assuming you have a blue water
vessel). Even with wash board out, most monos will come back up even
though they will flood down bit. Don't forget that more than 95% of big
ocean crossing are made by monohulls with no problems at all. While a
cat is nice in fair winds, you have to plan for the worst and that is
where the mono is surely superior. Talk about being your life raft
upside down is nonsense. The vessel should never become a life raft!
Most cruising cats are completely unsuitable for ocean passages. They
have massive windows to break, weak rigs, poor manouverability etc etc.
Since they are not used to heeling their stowage is terrible. If you
fall 20' across the bridge deck when she goes to even a mild 45 degress
tell me about how your broken bones feel!

The only choice in a cat is to run off and if that puts you in the
dangerous quad then you are in big trouble. The fact is that monos
generally sail the oceans because they are safer in extreme condtions
than a cat. This may not be true for coastal vessels/passages with
rescue close at hand. Listen to what really experienced ocean sailors
(e.g. Blake or Knox-Johnson) say about which vessel is most scary in a
storm... I think the ability to go to windward in a mono is a big plus
wheras a cat simply cannot do it (structural failure is inevitable in
slamming condtions). Since the speed benefit of cruising cats is now a
thing of the past what's really the big advantage (I assume you are not
going to object to a bit of heel) ?

Cheers MC

Oz1 wrote:



On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:18:51 +1200, The_navigator_©
wrote:





It is also rare for a cruising mono to break up and sink. In fact, they
often are found with no-one aboard. I've never heard of that being the
case for a multi. Once a cat gets flipped the loads on the bridge
structure get really enormous due to water in the hulls and 'suction' on
them. This will lead to structural failure PDQ in a storm and that is
why they'll sink. Give a good monohull anytime for survivability.

Cheers MC




"Although statistics are sparse, a study of 35 publicized multihull
capsizes between 1975 and 1985 contained only three cruisers, one
anchored in a 170-knot hurricane. Ninety-one percent were racers,
designed and sailed to the edge, and 60 percent occurred during racing
or record attempts. A full 54 percent of the boats were eventually
salvaged, some floating for months before retrieval. Ninety percent of
the crews survived, and half of those lost were on a single boat
shadowing the infamous 1979 Fastnet Race that claimed so many
monohullers."

http://www.2hulls.com/archive/Gen%20...apaulting.html


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.







Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

The Tao of Mooron..... The Zen of Warriors..... the subtlety of a
razor's edge.

CM


"The_navigator_©" wrote in message

| You just shrunk CM

No it's true. Come and look for yourself.

Cheers MC

Jeff Morris wrote:

Nonsense.



"The_navigator_©" wrote in message
...


Most cruisng cats thgat make it here here seem to be having their bridge
structures heavily repaired. Fact. just come to the yards here and check
it out!

Cheers MC

Jeff Morris wrote:



I don't believe this has ever happened for a production cruising catamaran. Just what
boats are you actually talking about?


"The_navigator_©" wrote in message
...




It is also rare for a cruising mono to break up and sink. In fact, they
often are found with no-one aboard. I've never heard of that being the
case for a multi. Once a cat gets flipped the loads on the bridge
structure get really enormous due to water in the hulls and 'suction' on
them. This will lead to structural failure PDQ in a storm and that is
why they'll sink. Give a good monohull anytime for survivability.

Cheers MC



Oz1 wrote:





On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:32:55 +1200, The_navigator_©
wrote:







Explain why so many cats break up and sink after capsize?

Cheers MC






Nah, you've got it all wrong.
They break up, capsize, break up some more and then scatter or sink.

Thing is the ones you hear of are usually racing bred and going twice
as fast as an equivalent mono.

It's rare for a cruising multi to break up and sink.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Sorry Oz I'm not impressed by this. The righting moment curves (Macsurf
hahahhahahaha) show that he has no idea about stability. That he should
publish such a blatently incorrect curve is astonishing. His experince
is no doubt limited to fair weather -the fact that he considers a
sinusoidal wave system shows that. I maintain that a cat will roll if
caught beam on to serious gray beard. That is why your *only* optioin is
to run off.

Cheers MC

Absolutely correct. How does the yacht generate a positive righting moment
during a condition of negative stability? His piece is hopelessly biased.

Prout?

http://www.vonwentzel.net/Prout/07.S...al/02.Effects/


Cheers MC

Jeff Morris wrote:

Nonsense.



"The_navigator_©" wrote in message
...


Most cruisng cats thgat make it here here seem to be having their bridge
structures heavily repaired. Fact. just come to the yards here and check
it out!

Cheers MC

Jeff Morris wrote:



I don't believe this has ever happened for a production cruising catamaran. Just what
boats are you actually talking about?


"The_navigator_©" wrote in message
...




It is also rare for a cruising mono to break up and sink. In fact, they
often are found with no-one aboard. I've never heard of that being the
case for a multi. Once a cat gets flipped the loads on the bridge
structure get really enormous due to water in the hulls and 'suction' on
them. This will lead to structural failure PDQ in a storm and that is
why they'll sink. Give a good monohull anytime for survivability.

Cheers MC



Oz1 wrote:





On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:32:55 +1200, The_navigator_©
wrote:







Explain why so many cats break up and sink after capsize?

Cheers MC






Nah, you've got it all wrong.
They break up, capsize, break up some more and then scatter or sink.

Thing is the ones you hear of are usually racing bred and going twice
as fast as an equivalent mono.

It's rare for a cruising multi to break up and sink.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Are you getting aroused Jl???....... Ha Ha ha ha ha ha

You'll always be the Wheel Dog.... get used to the view!


CM


"jlrogers" wrote in message
y.com...
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
| The Tao of Mooron..... The Zen of Warriors..... the subtlety of a
| razor's edge.
|
| The stink of Male Animal, Number 2.
|

Give it up if you can't do any better than that.

Navigator clearly has the upper hand in this discussion and
is speaking from factual, first-hand information and he
bears out my point that multis rarely cruise and those that
do are in danger of capsize and structural failure is inevitable.

Multis aren't real seagoing boats. They are a gimmick and
a stupid one at that. Just because you own a cat you are
trying to defend them but your defense is as inept as your
choice of vessels.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Nonsense.



"The_navigator_©" wrote in message
...
Most cruisng cats thgat make it here here seem to be having their bridge
structures heavily repaired. Fact. just come to the yards here and check
it out!

Cheers MC

Jeff Morris wrote:

I don't believe this has ever happened for a production cruising catamaran. Just what
boats are you actually talking about?


"The_navigator_©" wrote in message
...


It is also rare for a cruising mono to break up and sink. In fact, they
often are found with no-one aboard. I've never heard of that being the
case for a multi. Once a cat gets flipped the loads on the bridge
structure get really enormous due to water in the hulls and 'suction' on
them. This will lead to structural failure PDQ in a storm and that is
why they'll sink. Give a good monohull anytime for survivability.

Cheers MC



Oz1 wrote:



On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:32:55 +1200, The_navigator_©
wrote:





Explain why so many cats break up and sink after capsize?

Cheers MC




Nah, you've got it all wrong.
They break up, capsize, break up some more and then scatter or sink.

Thing is the ones you hear of are usually racing bred and going twice
as fast as an equivalent mono.

It's rare for a cruising multi to break up and sink.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Multis aren't real seagoing boats. They are a gimmick and
a stupid one at that.

Two years ago I was aboard a Prout that had done three Atlantic crossings
without a hitch (actually both ways, which makes 6!). The husband and wife had
enjoyed tremendous comfort and speed and suffered no serious problems.
That Prout was a great liveaboard and sailed great. I'm no big fan of the looks
of a Cat, but the advantages offered in space and comfort are huge, especially
for liveaboards who don't want to camp-out on a sub 40 foot mono.
Neal, you're a complete idiot who's so jealous of better boats (which is MOST)
that your every post stinks of envey!

Capt RB
C&C 32
NY

Prouts are a joke and you know it. Any boat with the mainmast
in the cockpit has some serious design problems. It's a good
thing they have nice, big motors or they would never go anywhere.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
Multis aren't real seagoing boats. They are a gimmick and
a stupid one at that.

Two years ago I was aboard a Prout that had done three Atlantic crossings
without a hitch (actually both ways, which makes 6!). The husband and wife had
enjoyed tremendous comfort and speed and suffered no serious problems.
That Prout was a great liveaboard and sailed great. I'm no big fan of the looks
of a Cat, but the advantages offered in space and comfort are huge, especially
for liveaboards who don't want to camp-out on a sub 40 foot mono.
Neal, you're a complete idiot who's so jealous of better boats (which is MOST)
that your every post stinks of envey!

Capt RB
C&C 32
NY

"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
of a Cat, but the advantages offered in space and comfort are huge, especially
for liveaboards who don't want to camp-out on a sub 40 foot mono.


You cannot load a catamaran down with all the necessary cruising
amenities and have it perform as well as a monohull, let alone be
considered fast. If space and comfort your wont then stick with
that flat in the city. You cannot take a flat to sea and expect it
to sail.