Wrong again Neal. A mono will right it self to be sure.
Occasionally, on the bottom. The catamaran won't
right it self, but it'll still be floating. Also, you don't have
to washing machine effect in a cat. If you flip, you stay
flipped. If you prepare for that possibility, survivability
goes way up, because you can stay with the boat. You
don't need to purchase an expensive liferaft. The boat
becomes the liferaft, as it should.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

IN EVERY WAY THAT MATTERS, I should have said.
The items you listed like limited cabin space, small cockpits
etc. don't matter to real sailors. As a matter of fact limited
cabin space is better and a small cockpit is better as far
as real sailors are concerned. We don't want a floating
condo or a condo ashore for that matter like you lubbers
do. We want something safe and secure in which to sail.

Any multi-hull is markedly inferior as far as seaworthiness
is concerned compared to a proper monomaran. The reason
for this is well known and is because as proper monomaran
will recover from a capsize while a multimaran will remain
upside down. Try sailing an upside-down boat sometime,
that is, if you live through the violent turning and jarring that
occurs from the cornerish nature of a multimaran.

Your example of tens of thousands of cruising cats
is 'ludicrisp' (Mike Tysonspeak). It proves your lubberly
proclivities. Why else would the mention of 'folding' even
be imagined. One need only fold when one places a
cat near shore or ashore.

Priorities, lubberboy, priorities!

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Superior in every way? Are you daft?

Tris have a few advantages over cats: they tack better, they're usually
faster in light
air, there are some very neat folding designs. But overall, they don't
make it as a
cruising boat. Perhaps you've noticed that tens of thousands of
cruising cats have been
built, but there are virtually no cruising tris.

A few reasons: they bounce back and forth on the amas, they have limited
visibility,
they're hard to get into, they have limited cabin space, the cockpit is
usually very
small. When they are overloaded they become dangerous. These are not
drawbacks for a
racing boat, but they certainly don't help a cruiser.

On top of this, tris are much easier to capsize than cats; in fact the
vast majority of
multihull capsizes are tris.

Once again you've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding on the
topic. At least
you're consistent.

-jeff


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Tris are superior to cats in every way.

"Oz1" wrote in message
...
But a tri is OK!

Any decent monomaran will not sink because it gets rolled
360 degrees. The structure is strong enough to withstand
this treatment without taking on significant quantities of water.

The myth about it is better to be upside down and afloat
than right side up on the bottom is just that - myth. Try living
on the outside of the hulls on an upside down multihull some
time. You will not think it is such a great thing to be sure.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Wrong again Neal. A mono will right it self to be sure.
Occasionally, on the bottom. The catamaran won't
right it self, but it'll still be floating. Also, you don't have
to washing machine effect in a cat. If you flip, you stay
flipped. If you prepare for that possibility, survivability
goes way up, because you can stay with the boat. You
don't need to purchase an expensive liferaft. The boat
becomes the liferaft, as it should.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

IN EVERY WAY THAT MATTERS, I should have said.
The items you listed like limited cabin space, small cockpits
etc. don't matter to real sailors. As a matter of fact limited
cabin space is better and a small cockpit is better as far
as real sailors are concerned. We don't want a floating
condo or a condo ashore for that matter like you lubbers
do. We want something safe and secure in which to sail.

Any multi-hull is markedly inferior as far as seaworthiness
is concerned compared to a proper monomaran. The reason
for this is well known and is because as proper monomaran
will recover from a capsize while a multimaran will remain
upside down. Try sailing an upside-down boat sometime,
that is, if you live through the violent turning and jarring that
occurs from the cornerish nature of a multimaran.

Your example of tens of thousands of cruising cats
is 'ludicrisp' (Mike Tysonspeak). It proves your lubberly
proclivities. Why else would the mention of 'folding' even
be imagined. One need only fold when one places a
cat near shore or ashore.

Priorities, lubberboy, priorities!

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Superior in every way? Are you daft?

Tris have a few advantages over cats: they tack better, they're usually
faster in light
air, there are some very neat folding designs. But overall, they don't
make it as a
cruising boat. Perhaps you've noticed that tens of thousands of
cruising cats have been
built, but there are virtually no cruising tris.

A few reasons: they bounce back and forth on the amas, they have limited
visibility,
they're hard to get into, they have limited cabin space, the cockpit is
usually very
small. When they are overloaded they become dangerous. These are not
drawbacks for a
racing boat, but they certainly don't help a cruiser.

On top of this, tris are much easier to capsize than cats; in fact the
vast majority of
multihull capsizes are tris.

Once again you've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding on the
topic. At least
you're consistent.

-jeff


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Tris are superior to cats in every way.

"Oz1" wrote in message
...
But a tri is OK!

and you still haven't gotten the message?

"katysails" wrote
I have been nearly struck 3 times...

You were always 10 feet tall in my opinion Taddy..... but I doubt I'm a
news group heavy.

CM

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
| At last! Finally!! A newsgroup heavy accepts that I'm more than
| ten feet tall!!! Now all I gotta do is get this here mirror
| right....
|
| Flying Tadpole
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote:
|
| The beauty of sailing in a shallow pond is the option to walk home if
the
| boat sinks.....
|
| CM
|
| "Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
| ...
| | I don't. I'm always tethered to a boat with full positive
| | buoyancy. I did start to wonder whether to stick one on Sunday
| | last, though. Especially when I mistimed a tack and the horizon
| | appeared under the bow, followed by shipping it brown over the
| | deck...
| |
| | FT
| |
| | "Capt. Mooron" wrote:
| |
| | You should have them on at all times while underway anyway.....
| |
| | CM
| |
| | "Njord" wrote in message
| | news:B2XOa.11$ob1.3@lakeread07...
| | | No one mentioned it yet, but I think it would be a good idea to
don
| life
| | | jackets. Hopefully, you won't need them, but it is better to put
them
| on
| | and
| | | not need them then to not put them on an wish you had. If you have
the
| | room,
| | | you might also consider coming off the wind on a beam or broad
reach
| to
| | | reduce the apparent wind.
| | |
| | | --
| | |
| | | Njord
| | |
| | | I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
| | | Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
| | | And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
| | | And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.
| | |
| | | From Sea-Fever by John Masefield
| | |
| | |

That air inside there gets depleted of oxygen pretty fast
and is a death trap.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Try living on the inside, not the outside. There have been
several documented cases of people doing that. Most monos
when holed, sink... unless it's a fine vessel like yours, which
has so much foam in it that you can't sit below.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Any decent monomaran will not sink because it gets rolled
360 degrees. The structure is strong enough to withstand
this treatment without taking on significant quantities of water.

The myth about it is better to be upside down and afloat
than right side up on the bottom is just that - myth. Try living
on the outside of the hulls on an upside down multihull some
time. You will not think it is such a great thing to be sure.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Wrong again Neal. A mono will right it self to be sure.
Occasionally, on the bottom. The catamaran won't
right it self, but it'll still be floating. Also, you don't have
to washing machine effect in a cat. If you flip, you stay
flipped. If you prepare for that possibility, survivability
goes way up, because you can stay with the boat. You
don't need to purchase an expensive liferaft. The boat
becomes the liferaft, as it should.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

IN EVERY WAY THAT MATTERS, I should have said.
The items you listed like limited cabin space, small cockpits
etc. don't matter to real sailors. As a matter of fact limited
cabin space is better and a small cockpit is better as far
as real sailors are concerned. We don't want a floating
condo or a condo ashore for that matter like you lubbers
do. We want something safe and secure in which to sail.

Any multi-hull is markedly inferior as far as seaworthiness
is concerned compared to a proper monomaran. The reason
for this is well known and is because as proper monomaran
will recover from a capsize while a multimaran will remain
upside down. Try sailing an upside-down boat sometime,
that is, if you live through the violent turning and jarring that
occurs from the cornerish nature of a multimaran.

Your example of tens of thousands of cruising cats
is 'ludicrisp' (Mike Tysonspeak). It proves your lubberly
proclivities. Why else would the mention of 'folding' even
be imagined. One need only fold when one places a
cat near shore or ashore.

Priorities, lubberboy, priorities!

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Superior in every way? Are you daft?

Tris have a few advantages over cats: they tack better, they're
usually
faster in light
air, there are some very neat folding designs. But overall, they
don't
make it as a
cruising boat. Perhaps you've noticed that tens of thousands of
cruising cats have been
built, but there are virtually no cruising tris.

A few reasons: they bounce back and forth on the amas, they have
limited
visibility,
they're hard to get into, they have limited cabin space, the cockpit
is
usually very
small. When they are overloaded they become dangerous. These are
not
drawbacks for a
racing boat, but they certainly don't help a cruiser.

On top of this, tris are much easier to capsize than cats; in fact
the
vast majority of
multihull capsizes are tris.

Once again you've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding on
the
topic. At least
you're consistent.

-jeff


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Tris are superior to cats in every way.

"Oz1" wrote in message
...
But a tri is OK!

No way. You can always use the emergency hatch, and boats
are rarely air tight, especially after getting flipped.

I talked to a guy who survived a hurricane in a catamaran.
He was one of four people on a Venisia 43 (I believe) off
of Belize when they got caught. He was below when the
cat flipped. Somehow he had the presence of mind to lash
himself to something and survived. The other three were
washed away (harnesses and jacklines all) "above." I don't
think he ever fully recovered from the experience. Apparently,
the force of the water rushing through the hull was enough to
strip him of his clothes and give him road rash over most of
his body.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
That air inside there gets depleted of oxygen pretty fast
and is a death trap.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Try living on the inside, not the outside. There have been
several documented cases of people doing that. Most monos
when holed, sink... unless it's a fine vessel like yours, which
has so much foam in it that you can't sit below.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Any decent monomaran will not sink because it gets rolled
360 degrees. The structure is strong enough to withstand
this treatment without taking on significant quantities of water.

The myth about it is better to be upside down and afloat
than right side up on the bottom is just that - myth. Try living
on the outside of the hulls on an upside down multihull some
time. You will not think it is such a great thing to be sure.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Wrong again Neal. A mono will right it self to be sure.
Occasionally, on the bottom. The catamaran won't
right it self, but it'll still be floating. Also, you don't have
to washing machine effect in a cat. If you flip, you stay
flipped. If you prepare for that possibility, survivability
goes way up, because you can stay with the boat. You
don't need to purchase an expensive liferaft. The boat
becomes the liferaft, as it should.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

IN EVERY WAY THAT MATTERS, I should have said.
The items you listed like limited cabin space, small cockpits
etc. don't matter to real sailors. As a matter of fact limited
cabin space is better and a small cockpit is better as far
as real sailors are concerned. We don't want a floating
condo or a condo ashore for that matter like you lubbers
do. We want something safe and secure in which to sail.

Any multi-hull is markedly inferior as far as seaworthiness
is concerned compared to a proper monomaran. The reason
for this is well known and is because as proper monomaran
will recover from a capsize while a multimaran will remain
upside down. Try sailing an upside-down boat sometime,
that is, if you live through the violent turning and jarring that
occurs from the cornerish nature of a multimaran.

Your example of tens of thousands of cruising cats
is 'ludicrisp' (Mike Tysonspeak). It proves your lubberly
proclivities. Why else would the mention of 'folding' even
be imagined. One need only fold when one places a
cat near shore or ashore.

Priorities, lubberboy, priorities!

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Superior in every way? Are you daft?

Tris have a few advantages over cats: they tack better, they're
usually
faster in light
air, there are some very neat folding designs. But overall,
they
don't
make it as a
cruising boat. Perhaps you've noticed that tens of thousands of
cruising cats have been
built, but there are virtually no cruising tris.

A few reasons: they bounce back and forth on the amas, they have
limited
visibility,
they're hard to get into, they have limited cabin space, the
cockpit
is
usually very
small. When they are overloaded they become dangerous. These
are
not
drawbacks for a
racing boat, but they certainly don't help a cruiser.

On top of this, tris are much easier to capsize than cats; in
fact
the
vast majority of
multihull capsizes are tris.

Once again you've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding
on
the
topic. At least
you're consistent.

-jeff


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Tris are superior to cats in every way.

"Oz1" wrote in message
...
But a tri is OK!

Cripes Jon... I think stepping up onto a 6 man offshore life raft with
supplies, a canopy, fishing gear and an EPRIB would be a far better
choice.... just paddle around and retrieve any floating beer cans and rum
bottles.

CM


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| No way. You can always use the emergency hatch, and boats
| are rarely air tight, especially after getting flipped.
|
| I talked to a guy who survived a hurricane in a catamaran.
| He was one of four people on a Venisia 43 (I believe) off
| of Belize when they got caught. He was below when the
| cat flipped. Somehow he had the presence of mind to lash
| himself to something and survived. The other three were
| washed away (harnesses and jacklines all) "above." I don't
| think he ever fully recovered from the experience. Apparently,
| the force of the water rushing through the hull was enough to
| strip him of his clothes and give him road rash over most of
| his body.

I forgot about the rum bottles...

Actually, liferafts are pretty much useless. They're hard to
deploy in bad conditions, hard to get into, and hard to live
in.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Cripes Jon... I think stepping up onto a 6 man offshore life raft with
supplies, a canopy, fishing gear and an EPRIB would be a far better
choice.... just paddle around and retrieve any floating beer cans and rum
bottles.

CM


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| No way. You can always use the emergency hatch, and boats
| are rarely air tight, especially after getting flipped.
|
| I talked to a guy who survived a hurricane in a catamaran.
| He was one of four people on a Venisia 43 (I believe) off
| of Belize when they got caught. He was below when the
| cat flipped. Somehow he had the presence of mind to lash
| himself to something and survived. The other three were
| washed away (harnesses and jacklines all) "above." I don't
| think he ever fully recovered from the experience. Apparently,
| the force of the water rushing through the hull was enough to
| strip him of his clothes and give him road rash over most of
| his body.

He does? I mean, he does.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
They're hard to
deploy in bad conditions, hard to get into, and hard to live
in.

So's a Coronado 27, but Neal manages!

RB

So that's the explanation for Lady Kate! Thanks CM

MC

Capt. Mooron wrote:

The beauty of sailing in a shallow pond is the option to walk home if the
boat sinks.....


CM

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
| I don't. I'm always tethered to a boat with full positive
| buoyancy. I did start to wonder whether to stick one on Sunday
| last, though. Especially when I mistimed a tack and the horizon
| appeared under the bow, followed by shipping it brown over the
| deck...
|
| FT
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote:
|
| You should have them on at all times while underway anyway.....
|
| CM
|
| "Njord" wrote in message
| news:B2XOa.11$ob1.3@lakeread07...
| | No one mentioned it yet, but I think it would be a good idea to don
life
| | jackets. Hopefully, you won't need them, but it is better to put them
on
| and
| | not need them then to not put them on an wish you had. If you have the
| room,
| | you might also consider coming off the wind on a beam or broad reach
to
| | reduce the apparent wind.
| |
| | --
| |
| | Njord
| |
| | I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
| | Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
| | And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
| | And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.
| |
| | From Sea-Fever by John Masefield
| |
| |