On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 13:23:31 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 8/29/13 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:24:04 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

Oh, and once again, 12-step programs are not treatment?they provide support.

The interesting thing is that the 12 step programs have a higher "success" rate than the
institutional or non 12 step programs. I know several people who have been in 12 step
programs and they have been sober for 15 and 20 years. They were never institutionalized,
they never received "professional" help with their addiction. People have to want to change
and forceing them to change or trying to modify their behavior isn't going to succeed.


I believe that is because of the support component that Harry
dismisses in such a cavalier way.

I don't dismiss support programs for substance abusers. Once again,
apparently, you cannot comprehend what you read. What I did say is that
the religious-osity, as it were, of 12-step programs, is offputting to a
substantial percentage of substance abusers. There is significant
published criticism for various reasons of 12-step programs.



.....especially when you consider all the 'published criticism' you've posted right here.

John (Gun Nut) H.
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Hope you're having a great day!