On 7/30/13 9:04 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 7/30/13 8:04 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...


What do you propose to make up for the lack of jobs, the lack of jobs
with benefits, the lack of jobs with decent pay, the lack of health
care, the lack of affordable higher or vocational education, the lack of
the ability to put enough aside for a retirement? Soylent Green?

===================

If we keep going the way we are heading the fictitious "Soylent
Corporation" will be replaced by the very real federal government, at
least until it collapses.

I think we need to balance government investments in both social welfare
and industry areas with accountability for results.
If it doesn't work, don't continue to invest the taxpayer's money in
it. That's the problem with entitlement programs. Once started, it's
almost impossible to end them, regardless of how ineffective they are.

Most importantly, any government subsidized program must have an "exit"
plan so to speak. We simply can't afford to pile entitlements on top of
entitlements that robs the recipients of any incentive to work to
improve their own station in life. Unfortunately, with few exceptions,
that's how it is today and is heading to get even worse.



Let's keep this simple, just for the sake of keeping it simple.

Posit, that an increasing number of employers are paying wages that are
relatively flat, that they are cutting way back on benefits such as
health care insurance and a defined retirement program, that jobs
themselves are more disposable than ever and new jobs are hard to find,
to the point that workers, faced with these circumstances, can barely
support themselves and their families, even with two paychecks.

So, in the absence of employer supplied healthcare and an employer
supplied pension and in the face of lousy wages and poor employment
possibilities, what is the equitable solution for the average middle
income or lower income worker? Being dropped off by the side of the road
to die is not something my "socialist" heart is willing to accept.

Seriously. If the private sector isn't supplying, if the workers can't
make enough to support themselves with food, housing, clothing,
education, health care and a retirement, despite their best efforts,
where do you see society going?

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I am surrounded by young people who are living with those challenges
right now. Although apprehensive, most are doing fine despite the
economy because they have taken steps to seek opportunities or otherwise
improve their financial situations. Remember, if the "real"
unemployment rate is around 16 percent as some economists believe, it
still means that roughly 84 percent of the working population is employed.

I can't argue the big business angle with you because I just don't think
businesses have a unique social welfare responsibility that exceeds
basic supply and demand. They exist to make a profit or they don't
exist period. You disagree, probably because of your close ties to
union activities.
It's interesting that although I personally don't think businesses
should be straddled with providing health care plans, overall they have
historically been more successful at it than the federal government.

We've just emerged from an unprecedented period of government financed
bailouts, unemployment extensions and federal stimulus programs.
Has it worked? Barely. The federal reserve is still pumping borrowed
$$ into the "economy" to the tune of $85 billion a month.

Again, I'll repeat that I believe everyone should have an opportunity
and if they need help in getting that opportunity or taking advantage of
one, I am all for it. But the "help" should be only that, and not a
method of living.







I have no problem with private corporations making reasonable profits.

But...you haven't responded to my posit. I also know people, young and
older, who are "doing fine," but I also know many people who, through no
fault of their own, are not doing fine. I suspect the numbers of those
"not doing fine" will only increase.

So, if those who are employed and are not doing fine and cannot afford
health care insurance or who don't have access to a defined benefit
retirement need significant health care or are at retirement age, and
they've never made enough to save enough...I ask again, what are these
people (and there are many tens of millions of them) supposed to do, sit
by the side of the road and wait for the Soylent Green truck?

You don't think corporations are in the social welfare business and you
don't think the government should be...

So we just let the less fortunate among use...die.