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Boating All Out

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 1 May 2013 13:26:54 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:49:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

You can get CFLs in a number of different colors from cool white to a
warmer almost red/yellow. I use them where they will work but a lot of
my interior lighting is on occupancy sensors and they don't like CFLs.
The "off state" load is not enough to power the occupancy sensor
properly and you end up with a flickering light that burns out
quickly.
They had to change the National Electric Code on the last code cycle
to force people to bring a neutral to every switch so you could use a
3 wire switching device. That is another cost for this "saving".

That code change has nothing to do with CFL's. It's to cater to
lighting control freaks who think using a simple switch is too arduous.

It has everything to do with CFLs and LEDs. They do not support line
powered switching devices. It is to allow smart switching devices so
lights turn off when you leave a room. I believe they are mandated in
the newer energy codes.

Right. It's about lighting controls, not CFL's per se.
I run 95% CFL's on 2-wire. No problems, no extra cost.
And I'm not "forced" to do anything differently.
That's you political spinning.

Know anybody like that?

Me, I have occupancy detectors all over my house.

So you need 3-wire. I don't. Because you have lighting controls.
Can't help you with that. Your choice.

So basically it's your lighting desires which
might add costs to those who were happy just flipping a switch.

and the energy code

Oh, really? What energy code mandates lighting controls on residences?
3-wire on all switches is pure NEC.

And NEC was no doubt lobbied for the code change by the special
interests who will financially benefit from the code. NEC should stay
out of design, especially for this type of frill.

This actually came from the IAEI (electrical inspectors) who were
concerned that installers were using the EGC (safety ground)
That was actually allowed if the standby current was 500 ua.

Baloney. A code for lighting controls requiring 3-wire would fix that.
No need to make every switch 3-wire.

Further, nobody is being "forced" to use the neutral unless they're
having inspected switch work done, or they're putting in fancy lighting
control devices that need it. It doesn't apply to existing switches.

It applies to any circuit extension and all new construction.

Right. Padding the accounts of special interests, as I already said.

And some states have their own exceptions. NC excepts most residential.

There are a lot of states that cave in to builders and write code
exceptions.

Good for them in this case. Electricians generally think it's a stupid
code from what I've read. Steps over the "design" line.

Lighting control outside of commercial building timing and entertainment
venues is about the most prissy and self-indulgent crap I can think
of...wait...isn't there a toilet that costs about 5 grand and wipes your
ass? Maybe that wins.

Maybe you should talk to the people who write the energy codes.

Nothing to do with the energy code. Just NEC.
Besides, it doesn't affect me. And since I'll never buy new
construction or use lighting controls, it never will.