"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
news
On 3/18/13 3:20 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"Urin Asshole" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:


Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job,
i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills
is so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door.
Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who
just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead.
There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty,
blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing,
diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are
physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very
well
and can lead to having your own business.

I have heard the gloom and doom for anyone who didn't go to college
and every year brings new opportunities for people who do not
really
need a degree. Now that we have US companies adopting the German
model of training workers for their particular field, that may be
another path for kids who don't want to start their career with a
huge
debt.

Bull****. Just about every study available shows that a college edu
makes a huge salary difference. Maybe you were able to do fine
without
one, but that's not the norm any more. You think factory workers are
the future? Jesus H. Christ that's a narrow view.

-------------------------------------------------------

Degrees and graduate degrees are fine and wonderful but if there are
no
jobs to be had (or just a few in very limited fields), not only is
the
degree non-productive there is also an almost lifetime level of debt
for
many. I have been shocked to learn of how many recent college
grads
are unemployed because they cannot find a job and of the number of
older
people with degrees and years of experience who are collecting
extended
unemployment checks. An economic recovery, if it ever really
happens,
isn't going to bring those jobs back.

Check out these statistics:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/02/01/alarming-number-of-student-loans-are-delinquent/


Things have changed and Wayne is correct, IMO.



There isn't going to be a real economic recovery until there is a
restructuring of our society. Too much of our nation's wealth is in
the
hands of the super rich, and the trend in that direction continues.
More
then they have since the 19th Century here, workers have become a
disposable commodity, with more of them working without even basic
protections, with a diminishing number of employers providing health
care, with few employers providing defined pensions, et cetera. It's
becoming much more difficult to put away a few dollars when one is
facing a lifetime of really insecure employment, family medical bills,
et cetera. As a society, we're on the downhill part of a roller
coaster
ride that sadly leads only to the bottom.

--------------------------------------------------

Why is that so? I don't agree with your "disposable commodity"
mentality, but I do agree that there is a shrinking middle class due
to a corresponding shrinking job market. Even Al Gore warned of this
way back when. So did Ross Perot.

There has always been "super rich". Why is the "super rich" suddenly
and primarily responsible for the job losses and resultant middle
class unemployment?

The primary reason is global competition for traditional manufacturing
jobs in industry. As Wayne pointed out, there will always be jobs
that can't be outsourced, but everyone can't be a plumber,
electrician or HVAC technician. For a while, everyone and his brother
was becoming an "IT" serviceperson or was setting up website creation
and maintenance services. But with canned software, anyone with half
a brain can create and maintain their own website.

Go to an ER or hospital lately? A good number of the doctors are
transplants from other countries. Cars run for 100,000 miles or more
with only cursory maintenance. Used to require a tune-up every 20,000
miles. Electronic devices like computers and TV's have become
disposable and cheap. No need to repair them and when they can be
repaired, you can usually do it yourself. Magazines and newspapers
are on the decline. Everything worth reading can be found on the
Internet. No need for mechanics maintaining printing presses or
truck drivers delivering bales of newspapers anymore.

If you stop to think about all the technological advances made in the
past 15 years or so and also consider the global competition for the
manufacturing jobs, I think it becomes clear what has happened to
middle class jobs.