I guess I'll pick up the latest Antenna Handbook and start reading.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Gary Schafer" wrote in message
...
I am not sure just what you are missing here. Or maybe I am not
understanding your question.

Again I am posting the reference pages below in the antenna handbook.
Not once could I find in there that they stated that a loading coil on
an antenna made it into a quarter wave antenna as did earlier versions
of the antenna handbook and the regular handbook. That is why I say
they finally got it right. Maybe you are questioning which one is
right.

In the earlier handbooks the subject was more or less glossed over
with poor explanation of what happens in the antenna matching. The
newer antenna handbook goes into more detail.

I even tell you the pages!

Also if you look at my earlier post "Notes on short SSB antennas"
there is a link to W8JI's web site where he discusses the same stuff
that I have. He tells you why a loaded antenna is still the same
length electrically as an unloaded antenna. In that post there is a
copy of part of his article that deals with this topic as I credited
him with.
For more details look at his web site.

REFERENCE 1

If you also look in the 18th edition 1997? of the ARRL antenna
handbook chapter 16 "mobile and marine antennas", and probably later
versions, you will see where they properly discuss loaded short
antennas and what the coil does.

REFERENCE 2

Also if you look at the earlier post titled "Notes on short SSB
antennas" you will find a reference to W8JI's web site where he
discusses these very items in detail. He and many other engineers
will
tell you the same thing.

Regards
Gary



On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:51:34 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

Gary,

I'm not trying to be contrary at all. So much of what floats around on
this and other forums is totally anecdotal. When it comes to
electrical engineering I expect a more formal and verifiable approach.

More below.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Gary Schafer" wrote in message
.. .
I take it that you are trying to learn and not just be argumentative.

Absolutely. I'm tired of this argument. I'd like to be up to date in
the current school of thought. Kind of like that myth that you need
to line your hull with yards of copper foil as a counterpoise when
emperical evedence says otherwise.

If you read what I wrote, I said that in the antenna handbook that
they finally have it right.

But the only reference you cite is the ARRL Antenna Handbook.
When you say they finally got it right, you must base that on something
other than the handbook itself. When you said they were wrong for so
many years, you gave no reference that supports that view. When you
say they finally got it right you still gave no reference to support that
suposition. So what it boils down to is that the handbook used to be
wrong, now is right, and you are the judge as to what was right and wrong
with no independently verifiable refererence to either position. I expect
this from the government, but I cannot accept if from someone that
appears have a reasonable engineering background.

Read the first three paragraphs under "TUNING TO A QUARTER WAVE"
below.

I have read it. No reference other than the ARRL itself which used to be
wrong and now is right.

Regards
Gary


On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:07:54 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

First you cite several instances that the ARRL treatment is
wrong. Then you say the they finally got it right. Where are
your references that substantiate either statement?

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Gary Schafer" wrote in message
.. .
I tried to give an abbreviated synopsis of the subject and dispel
some
myths. I did not cover all the details.

You need look no further than the ARRL itself for references. If you
read the whole post you would see that near the bottom I credited
the
ARRL 2000 edition of their handbook, antenna section. The definition
of "radiation resistance" is from there and the calculations of the
example antenna with impedance's and voltages developed are
directly
from there.

If you also look in the 18th edition 1997? of the ARRL antenna
handbook chapter 16 "mobile and marine antennas", and probably later
versions, you will see where they properly discuss loaded short
antennas and what the coil does.

Also if you look at the earlier post titled "Notes on short SSB
antennas" you will find a reference to W8JI's web site where he
discusses these very items in detail. He and many other engineers
will
tell you the same thing.

I don't mean to discredit the ARRL but their statements in regard to
tuning an antenna to a quarter wave in their older publications are
misleading as evidenced by all the misconceptions that fly around.

While that is a simplified explanation of what happens with the
antenna matching, I suppose it was easier to propagate that (no pun
intended) term for simplicity. But if you really want to understand
what is going on it will get you into trouble in understanding as it
is a conflict with what really happens.

Regards
Gary




On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:25:53 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

So, is this something you put together? How about some references?
ARRL is a pretty reputable outfit. If you are going to dispute
their
writings, you should provide some some verifiable references.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Gary Schafer" wrote in message
.. .
This tries to explain how short SSB antennas operate and why.
The discussion is concerning antennas that are shorter than a
quarter
wavelength.

TUNING TO A QUARTER WAVE

I looked through several older handbooks and antenna handbooks
and
found most of them professing what Larry is saying about "tuning
an
antenna to an electrical quarter wave."

No wonder so many people have it wrong! The ARRL has been
preaching
this stuff for years. But in the same paragraphs they will speak
to
the "electrical length being very close to the physical length".
Can't
have it both ways! Even the 2000 ARRL handbook has it wrong.

They finally got it right in their antenna handbook. Not once did
I
see reference to "tuning an antenna to an electrical quarter wave
length.

It may seem like semantics but there are a lot of people that get
confused and think that when making the system resonant with a
shorter antenna that the antenna is really the same as a quarter
wave
length antenna when there is a loading coil. It is far from that.
Its
radiation resistance and its feed point resistance are both much
lower.

An antennas electrical length is what it is by itself. Adding a
coil
to it to make it resonant will not change that.