On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:01:30 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Hi, Bruce, and list (you, too, Wilbur!)


"Bruce" wrote in message
news
That will be followed by application of a very dilute solution of Dykem, a
machinists' dye, followed by another sanding (this time to take off the
dye
in the high spots, so no effort, particularly), fill in the low spots,
rinse, repeat until you can't see any.

Rather then dykem a great many people use paint in a spray can. A
light almost mist coat is all required.

I've heard that, and even had the other guy referenced in my original doing
it starting a couple of days ago, on the topsides of the boat he's working.
The trick is to get it reasonably well over the entire surface - without
having to do it too thickly. The other guy's application wasn't very
uniform in that respect or he's sanding high spots rather than filling low
ones, because there's nothing to be seen in the area he's currently working
on. If we were doing it on a painted surface (ours, in this case, topsides,
is very thin) we'd have to be extremely careful. For our bottom, we'll be
filling low spots, instead (that's before the barrier coat which will reveal
small imperfections)...

Usually the spray paint comes pretty far into the paint schedule.
after applying at least one coat of primer, usually. Up to that point
it is usually easy enough to see how fair the hull is.


The yard here doesn't do any protection of jack stand tops, nor their
slings
(using WAXED PAPER!!) during lifting, so I'll be buying some very heavy
plastic sheeting to wrap those (tops, and, later, on lifting, their
slings -
which have already gouged our hull more than once in the course of moving
us
to a different location and then hanging us so we could get under the
keel),
so that when I have to move the stands to fill in the holes, I won't be
damaging the surface any more than absolutely necessary. As it is now,
every move of the jack stands leaves residue from the tops...

Aren't you using spreaders for the slings? Or by "gouged" do you mean
scrapped?

The TravelLift is, in effect, spreaders. But there's so much crap on the
strapping that the least bit of movement against the hull is like taking 8
(vs, say, 24, 36, 40, etc.) grit to it and/or leaves residue on the nicely
polished hull from someone else' bottom paint (both instances visible during
our two different lifts after our first out of the water)...


Ah, when you said "slings" I was envisioning a crane with slings. But
a travel lift usually has fabric slings. They shouldn't bother the
hull. Of if they are dirty they can be wrapped with sheet plastic or
even canvas., although I've not seen slings that grotty.

Then, each coat of the barrier coat (recoatability up to 90 days without
sanding) will show up places which aren't perfect, by eye, as they'll be
shiny by comparison to the dull epoxy fairing. Vinylester patching in
those
spots, another coat of barrier, rinse, repeat, until you can't see any
dings. ETA 30 or more mils.

That can have bottom paint applied without sanding when it's "tacky" -
which, by their definition, is when you push your finger on it and it
leaves
a fingerprint but doesn't stick to you. I need to contact the vendor to
see
how long a window that likely delivers!

If Vinylester is anything like epoxy you have plenty of time, in fact
the opposite is true of epoxy. You sit and sit for what seems like
hours before it starts getting tacky and then usually on the first
attempt you start before it is hardened sufficiently and it wrinkles.
Regardless of what the vendor tells you it is a good idea to do a test
patch as it is rather tear provoking to have the whole side of the
boat start to craze.

The vinylester patching would be on top of the barrier coat's first (and if
needed, successive) coat(s). The barrier coat is epoxy paint. The "tacky"
part applies only to the appropriate time to put on bottom coat before you'd
have to sand it. As we'll be using ablative, from there it is a matter of
convenience as we'll not be going weeks or more between coats (might not
need to sand even at that, but it will be moot).


Somehow either you are using the wrong terminology or I am
misunderstanding you. If one is taking a hull down to bare fiber one
fills and fairs with an epoxy filler. Once the hull is fair then it is
very useful to roll on 8 to 16 mils of epoxy resin as a waterproof
seal - or you can buy a seal coat from one of the paint companies and
pay extra for the label. Once the epoxy coat gets tacky I like to roll
on a coat of epoxy hi-built primer and do my finish sanding on that.
Then the topsides and the bottom paint can be applied with no other
prep.

The only times I've seen vinylester used is to provide a (relatively)
waterproof seal - usually as the outer lamination on a molded hull -
which the epoxy resin coating, if you used it, already gives you. When
you say "vinylester" are you perhaps referring to a vinyl primer used
as a tie coat under the anti-fouling, which is a one part paint?


And, yes, I'm mightily sick of looking at it - but we have had myriad
folks
come up to us and say how good it looks. Whether they're well enough
informed to have those represent "valid" opinions or not I can't say, but
the guy who's been there, done that, on the boat still on the hard here
has
assured us that we're doing a stellar job of it.

Interestingly, there's a guy who came by, now months ago, asking for work,
with what seemed like impeccable credentials (same guy above who has been
there, done that on his boat described him as immensely overqualified for
the job at hand), has shown us that we're doing our work far better than
he
would have, based on the huge boat he's been on ever since. On that boat,
he's had to do just about everything we've encountered, but walking by it
on
the way to the showers every night during his tenure on it showed us that
we've been paying incredibly more attention to detail than he, and doing
each step better, to boot. With any luck, we'll not have to do the level
of
recovery in the touch up phase which he's had to do.

The question then arises whether you are "gilding the lily" as it
were. However beauty is in the eye of the beholder so do it to satisfy
yourself.

:{)) Or, in Wilbur's case, putting lipstick on a pig (c'mon Wilbur, you
could'a thought of that one!). The undersides, of course, never get seen
until it's out of the water. Wayne B's comments long ago, now, about some
of the bottom jobs he's done will not see that level of finish here.
However, both for the light brushing or spatula-ing we'll do when we get
slime on it and our speed through the water, we want it to be fair, as the
former comes off evenly, and the latter makes for better progress to where
we're going.

On the other hand, the underwater surfaces have a real effect on
sailing speed while the topsides don't do anything but keep the water
out of the bunks :-)

In the end, however, without quoting Wilbur's misguided meanderings, our
objective was to never address this issue (other than bottom paint) again.
Indeed, when we came out of the water, we had no blisters (visible); it was
only when our sander guy got a bit (well, a lot - a great deal of what we've
been doing is fairing out his gouges) overenthusiastic that we even saw some
weep spots.

Chasing those weep spots gave us the holes we filled this time. However,
Captain Neal's been around since the original refit, and should recall that
there were about 800 blisters which were addressed at that time. Those
amount to a fair number of the spots which show in the link (presumed; I've
not opened it) in his jab. Following those repairs, we had our wreck; no
water came in through any hull damage. I contend that proves that pimples
go away and leave a princess unmarred, or a warrior unblemished :{)) (In
the metaphor, a good makeup job can turn an ordinary gal into a looker!)

So, between our sander's gouges and the repairs we've identified and - with
the exception of a wrap of the leading edge of the rudder left to do -
remediated, there was a great deal of spotting going on in addition to all
those from the original. However, when we're finished, there will be an
epoxy coating on the entire hull before the epoxy barrier coat. In addition
to putting a lot (minimum 30 mils) on for the barrier benefit, it should
help avoid taking too much off if we ever get to the point of removing
successive layers of bottom paint, later.


Question. If you are using an epoxy filler and sanding it before it
hardens doesn't your sandpaper clog up rather rapidly?

We haven't yet done the striping, but the BTDT reference has said that it
won't, due to our doing it with a longboard, rather than a power tool as we
have to this point. As to clogging, it's more a matter of the stuff
"pilling" - but that is cured with another hour or so of waiting time.
We'll have to see how it behaves with a longboard, but having light strokes,
all in one direction (well, left and right, vs orbital/DA), should make that
minimal.

Of more concern is the size of the surface. I made up the handle and bottom
sides yesterday during the noon-afternoon sun which followed the rain; it
looked threatening, so I didn't do the bottom - I'll do that today during
the wait time for the first strips to cure. However, Lydia didn't quite get
how this would be used, so we put the raw plywood surface up, and I showed
her. It took substantial effort to move it. It MAY (hoping) be that all
the points of the paper will actually lessen the drag (do it lightly, as
we're not sanding fully cured), but until we've done it, I'm not sure even
our beefy (not body builder, but not a wimp, either) helper and I can make
that long board move!

Stay tuned! :{))

L8R

Skip and crew, waiting for the sunrise to start putting it on...
Cheers,

Bruce