On Sun, 15 May 2011 12:24:12 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:06:17 -0400, wf3h wrote:


what i said was that obama had no choice. the right, again, gamed the
system to protect their interests to ensure that we chose the most
expensive way to get healthcare for everyone

which is what I said.

How did the republicans "game the system" when it was the senate that
wrote the bill (actually Max Baucus and 2 WellPoint lobbyists
according to Howard Dean) and it was passed without any GOP votes?

you know, when i see right wingers make this argument i wonder what
their SPO2 reading is because it's obvious they live in a vacuum

uh...the dems wrote the bill. it took them over a YEAR

why?

well because the right hemmed and hawed, shucked and jived...and the
GOP filibustered ANY single payer provision, ANY provision that would
enable terminal patients to get info on palliative care, etc. and
STILL...after ALL these concessions were made, the right STILL
wouldn't support it.

do you DENY obama wanted a SINGLE payer option? where is it?

oh. the right cut it out.

we got the bill that the right wanted, insofar as it still allows the
uninsured to get coverage. YOU GUYS...the RIGHT engineered this to
make it benefit the wealthy and to make it as inefficient as possible,
even while expanding coverage

cant help you dude. YOU guys did this. a SINGLE PAYER system would
have been MORE effective and MORE effiicient but the right blocked it.


This is a "mandate", in other words the government makes you go to
those insurance companies.

we already have mandates. i have no kids. but i have to pay higher
taxes than those who do. that's a mandate.

this is another urban myth of the right. you guys build your entire
ideology on myths

Again you are diverting the subject. This is the first time they have
made people buy health insurance.

how do they 'make' them?

oh. they dont. they simply pay a tax if they dont buy insurance

just like i pay an additional tax if i dont have kids.

so you're wrong.

That "tax" starts out being low but raises to the cost of buying
insurance.

GOAL POST MOVING

FIRST you denied there were 'mandates' prior to this situation

NOW you're bitching about the SIZE of 'mandates'. the FACT is
'mandates' have ALWAYS been in the tax code. THIS one is no different.

HAHAHAHA gee whiz where did i EVER say the dems were innocent? a
PLUTOCRACY, by DEFINITION, doesnt depend on parties.

So you agree with me, OK

so you agree with me. OK


not familiar with the term, are you?

it's the RIGHT that's dong so much to kill the US. regardless of
party.

and there's little choice. when the system is rigged, it really doesnt
matter what party is in power

the dems have MORE of an orientation for the middle class but their
effects are mitigated by right wing myths like those you believe

and which i have demonstrated are false.


They talk a good game but they act the same as the gop.

really?

what healthcare bill did the GOP propose?

oh. none.



Cite that.
I see this
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=F07

sorry. part of your myth making is that you dont pay attention to the
news

http://gothamist.com/2010/02/08/wall...ates_to_re.php
http://mydd.com/2010/2/24/wall-streee


I do not see that 80% you cited but I agree it is not as much in 2011
as it was in 2008 but in 2008 the democrats were the ones getting
65-70%

MOVING THE GOALPOSTS

what i said was that

What you said was EIGHTY PERCENT.

what YOU said was 30%! so i was off by 10%

you were off by 30%

gee.


wall street decided to shift its money when the DEMS pushed regulation

it doesnt matter HOW much was given. that's really irrelevant

Then why pull a lie out of your ass.

says the guy who INSISTED the split was either MORE for the dems or an
even split.

golly.


the FACT is the GOP got the money from wall street because wall street
realized the right wing would help them continue destroying the US.

The reason they shifted to the GOP was because it was the GOP that was
opposing the bailout.

the GOP AUTHORED THE BAILOUT. it was DEVISED by HENRY PAULSON, bush's
treasury secretary

even some dems believe right wing mythology. you're not immune. no
reason there arent stupid democrats. we have LOTS here in PA.

Like I said look inside YOUR party.

like i said, look inside YOUR ideology



and iraq? a TRILLION spent there by the liar bush. 4400 US troops

between bush's WARS and his SPENDING and his TAX CUTS for the RICH HE
bankrupted us, NOT the black guy

sorry, right winger. the facts destroy your belief in MYTH


You didn't cite any facts, only a baseless tirade.

really?

bush didnt start the iraq war?

Again he did that with a lot of democrat votes, including the current
Sec of State.

HAHAHAHA

let's see...bush LIED about WMD's. and you IGNORE that!!

i love it when you right wingers RUN from your history!


bush didnt have 2 tax cuts, in 2001 and 2003?

That Obama just extended,. That is now the Obama tax cut along with an
additional 2% cut in FICA which insured SS would never see a surplus
again.

guess you FORGOT obama TRIED to have tax cuts ONLY for those making
LESS than 250K

but the RIGHT, with their urban myth of 'supply side' economics,
INSISTED it be extended to the rich or they wouldnt vote for it

why do RIGHT WINGERS ALWAYS RUN from their own history?



and under bush? oh. 150,000

gee. i guess if you're right wing

150,000 is the same as 50,000

Obama just moved them to another quagmire in Afghanistan

tell it to bin laden. he'd disagree

oh. wait...there's a technical detail...


uh...why? could the presence of US troops be a deterrent?

golly. go figure. and where is the taliban? ummmm...in pakistan.

so you want us to go to war with pakistan

if our troops can make it through the nukes.

You still have not said why we are at war with Afghanistan if all of
the enemies are in Pakistan

you have still not said why you think we should invade pakistan



Think Somalia,
Yemen and Eastern Libya. Egypt may end up being the economic center of
the terrorists since they are nuzzling up to Iran as we speak.

HAHAHAHAA

there are NO taliban in somalia. the taliban are PASHTUNS...about 40%
of afghanistan is pashtun.

somalia has al shabab...a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT group

I thought this was a war on terrorism. The taliban is only interested
in getting us out of Afghanistan

and you know that how?? they MURDERED 3000 americans and here you are
telling us what patriots they are!

not too familiar with current affairs, i see

Yeah I do watch current affairs. I assume you don't know a hot bead of
Al qaeda is Eastern Libya, the same people we are backing in that war.

so qaddhafi says

guess you dont know the BIGGEST threat to the US is AQAP.

bet you never even heard of it.


If you understand terrorism at all you will understand Afghanistan is
a very small part of the problem but it is where we are putting most
of our people.

and yet afghanistan is where the attack on the WTC was launched from

go figure

Most of the planning was done in Western Europe and the critical
training was done in the US.

HAHAHAHA and i'm sure it had the approval of the respective govts like
bin laden did in afghanistan, right?

is THIS how the right argues?? in every single statement you've made,
you LEAVE OUT CENTRAL POINTS


All OBL did was have the concept and the money. That money was from
Saudi Arabia.
We are nation building, no more, no less. That is also what we are
doing in Iraq and have been since "mission accomplished".

oh. so BUSH's policy failed

Yes it did and Obama is continuing it. You are not reading are you.

really? obama is pursuing a very practical policy of NOT building
afghanistan except for the security services. and he's planning on
bringing 5000 troops back.


and are we 'nation building' or simply training a replacement for our
troops witha corrupt govt then getting out?

oh. you dont know that

Yes I do know that and the latter is true ... in both countries. It is
probably worse in Afghanistan. Karzai is totally corrupt, yet we are
still trying to prop him up.

yep. and that's fine. as long as he kills the taliban i dont care how
much he impoverishes his own people




We will "win" in Afghanistan the same way we did in Vietnam.

HAHAHAHA

really? gee. the taliban controls about 3% of afghan territory now.
it may be a stalemate but that's BETTER than vietnam

We control the cities and we do it with overwhelming force. When we
leave they will be right back in there. You said it yourself.

guess you missed the part where i said our ONLY role there should be
in building a military dictatorship.

you simply cant think for yourself

you believe in 'supply side economic's...which failed

I never said that.

sure you did. you HIDE the role of the right in continuing to turn the
US into a plutocracy.

you complain about the healthcare bill WITHOUT acknowledging it was
the RIGHT that gutted the single payer system

you complain about the 'bailout' while hiding the fact it was the GOP
that authored it

you complain about the depression while HIDING the fact it was the
MYTH of supply side economics that caused it.



you believe that NOTHING has changed in healthcare when we just got it
for 40 MILLION americans...

We still have a monopoly health care system with their hand in the
taxpayers pocket now.

gee. so what. that will NOT change unless the RIGHT starts to admit we
need checks and balances on wall street

the citiznes united decision was a clarion call by the RIGHT that our
election system is for sale

and THAT decision was supported by ALL FIVE CONSERVATIVE justices and
OPPOSED by ALL FOUR moderate judges


you dont know that the most recent election saw wall street money go
to the dems so try to shift the goalposts to PREVIOUS elections

Read what you typed.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant GOP. I
also told you why. It was the GOP who was fighting the bailout and
Wall Street was trying to buy them back The dems were in the bag.

the GOP NEVER fought the bailout because it was HENRY PAULSON who
AUTHORED IT and GEORGE BUSH who implemented it.

last time i checked, BOTH were republicans.

and the bailout was NECESSARY because the RIGHT has SOCIALIZED risk
and PRIVATIZED rewards. there is NO system of checks and balances on
corporate power because the RIGHT will NOT permit it


you dont know that this happened because the DEMS pushed regulation
while the GOP continues its failed policy of fundamentalist
deregulation

The regulation was toothless.

thanks to the american RIGHT WING. they opposed ANY regulation at all.
you IGNORE this


you dont know we have reduced our footprint in iraq and it's OUR
decision whether to stay

We seem to be stuck at 50,000 according to Gates

you dont know we're already talking about withdrwwing 5000 troops from
afghanistan

Oh wow, a 3% withdrawal. That will teach them.
What do you think it will level off at? 50,000?, 100,000?

gee. it's going in the opposite direction from bush. and this after
only 2 years of obama.

bush was there for 7 years