On Thu, 05 May 2011 13:51:35 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 12:49:06 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 14:59:03 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 11:00:28 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 13:42:49 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 09:30:49 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 01:23:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 20:53:41 -0700, wrote:

These guys didn't even do a cursory investigation into the weather or
just exactly what the nature of the desert was really like.
Your Wiki says they did not understand the sand moves and that it also
flies in the air. They took sea going helicopters with no defense
against airborne dirt into a sand storm. Guess what, The helicopters
failed ... duh!
That is a failure of planning.

Give the time-frame they were working under, it was the best they
could do. Of course,

You should watch the Charley Rose interview with Dennis Blair this
week (5/03/11) It starts about 30 minutes in,. I am sure it is on the
web site. He says pretty much what I said about Eagle Claw.

No agenda there... he was fired by Obama.

You didn't watch it did you.

I don't have the time to confirm or deny all of your wild references.
Are you denying that he screwed up and was fired?

So you are willing to speak from ignorance, OK

You're the one who appears to be selectively ignorant, since you won't
answer the question.


Blair was fired for reasons having nothing to do with his knowledge of
naval operations in the late 70s.

So, therefore, someone who's proven to be incompetent, should be
believed.

Nobody questioned Blair's "competence". There was just a policy
disagreement about sharing intel with the French.
If you disagree with the CnC you have to go.

Huh? Lots and lots of people have. Good grief. Look it up!


Carter was evil and/or incompetent,

Yes, in DC terms he was incompetent. He did not understand how things
worked and did not really accomplish much.

even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Huh? More than LBJ? More than Nixon? FDR?
You are going to have to explain that one.
Even Carter says his main achievement was Camp David

Huh... read up.... http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1


You must not have even read the article you cited. I saw no
significant legislative things there.
They talk a lot about the foreign policy things, mostly Camp David,
that I pointed out, Salt II and giving away the Panama canal.
That is nothing compared to FDR, LBJ or Nixon's LEGISLATIVE
accomplishments and that is what you were talking about.

Try again. This time read slower.

I did. Now enlighten us and quote the part I missed in that article.
Are you referring to the nebulous comments about reorganizing some
federal departments? That is executive, not legislative and was really
just changing some signs.

Enlighten yourself. You appear to need it.

You cited an article with absolutely ZERO references to legislative
achievements and now you are ducking the question with a personal
attack.

Try again. There are plenty listed.

Many of the Carter administration's most noteworthy accomplishments
came in the field of foreign affairs. President Carter established
full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China and made
good on a long-standing American promise to return control of the
Panama Canal to the Panamanians. After negotiating the necessary
treaties with Panama, Carter prevailed in an exceptionally contentious
ratification fight in the Senate.

The outstanding achievement of the Carter presidency was the peace
settlement between Israel and Egypt. Over 13 days of meetings at the
presidential retreat, Camp David, Carter persuaded President Anwar
Sadat of Egypt and Prime Minister Menachem Begin of Israel to end the
31-year state of war between their countries. Egypt was the first of
Israel's Arab neighbors to make peace with the Jewish state. Israel
ended its occupation of the Sinai peninsula and returned control of
the territory to Egypt.

President Carter also negotiated a Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty
(SALT II) with the Soviet Union, but before the Senate could vote to
ratify the treaty, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and Carter
withdrew the treaty from consideration. The two superpowers agreed
informally to abide by the terms of the treaty, even though neither
side ever ratified it officially.




Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Then maybe they shouldn't have done it and Carter was the one who said
GO.

So, you believe he was told that it wouldn't work but he said go
anyway? Keep trying, but you're not even close.

Where does the buck stop?

You didn't answer the question. What a shocker.

I believe he approved a flawed plan, in a hurry without doing due
diligence and it was a horrible debacle. Carter was involved in all of
the decision making and most of the planning. Maybe you should do some
reading, beyond a single Wiki post.

So, you're claiming that Carter selected the helicopter models? Did he
also select the ammo?


It was widely reported that Carter was involved in all of the decision
making, to the point of being disruptive. Carter's micro managing was
so pervasive and so public that it made it to Saturday Night Live.

Total nonsense. Carter didn't pick the helicopters or the crew. You
know it, I know it, the world knows it.

... and you know this how?
It is a fact that Carter was intimately involved in these decisions,
to the point of meddling. Blair was at the pentagon, were you?