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On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:14:35 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:56:28 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:15:57 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:44:54 -0700, wrote:

Feel free to claim victory. JFK... such a terrible president, esp.
compared to who.. Nixon?

I will give you my JFK challenge. Name 3 great things he did.

Averted a nuclear exchange with the Russians.

He barely dodged a bullet he fired himself. The Cuban missile crisis
was all JFKs doing, thinking with his dick and not his head. In the
end, we took the same deal from the Soviets they wanted before the
whole thing started (removing missiles from Turkey). Basically they
pushed and we backed down, in spite of all the saber rattling.

Nonsense. He was a new president and was pushed by the generals to do
more than was right. He did everything right after that wrt the
Russians, despite your views.

That was a year and a half into his presidency. The fact remains, the
only reason there were ever missiles in Cuba was a response to our
obsolete missiles in Turkey that were scheduled to be removed and if
we had simply pulled them out when Krushchev asked us to, there would
have been no Cuban missile crisis. In the end that was exactly what we
did.

So, you believe in a policy of appeasement.

It was just JFK's lack of willingness to do anything the Soviets
wanted, even if it was in our best interest that caused the problem.
Pure testosterone, no brains.

According to you, expert in all things.

The real screw up was at the beginning of JFKs term when he failed to
honor our commitments to the Bay of Pigs. All he was supposed to do
was provide a no fly zone (before that term was popular) and take out
a little of Castro's armor. He didn't . If he had done that, we
probably would not have had a Castro.

So, we should have continued a war in Cuba? Yet, they hadn't attacked
us, so it sounds like your hypocrisy is showing.

By withholding the promised air cover, we doomed a lot of people to
die on the beach.

Not our war... remember comments like that from.... wait for it....
YOU.

Space program to go to the moon.

He made the challenge but had very little to do with actually
implementing it.

Sure... whatever. I guess you think he was supposed to be out there on
the pad filling the fuel tanks or something.

I just do not think he contributed anything but the vague idea,
similar to Bush promising we will go to Mars
I suppose if Bush had been shot we might go.

Sure, Mr. Expert. You're in denial.

Civil Rights, which LBJ finished.

That was all LBJ, JFK resisted that legislation.

Total nonsense. I guess you don't know much about history, even recent
history, like him bringing in the Fed marshals and nationalizing the
Alabama Nat. Guard. Oops... try again.

Find me the links to his name or his endorsement on any of the
legislation.

Changing the subject. Address my comment.

In 1963 he was afraid that legislation would sink his second term and
he ran from it like a scalded dog.
Why do you think he was in Dallas smooching with Connally? It was to
prop up the southern vote.

And, that has to do with Civil Rights how?

Nixon is easy (Legislation like EPA and OSHA, opening up China, SALT 1
with the Soviets) These are things that are still relevant today.

Yet, you hate EPA and OSHA.

Did I ever say that? I probably have better environmental credentials
than you do. How many hours did you volunteer for your DEP last month?
Last year? This decade?

Doubtful. You'd like to see them both disbanded I'm sure. I don't need
to brag about how much time I spend volunteering. I have a business. I
don't have retirement time. You do.

In other words you are an armchair environmentalist who really doesn't
do anything but talk about it.

According to you. You know practically nothing about me, and I don't
wish to brag. Feel free to tell us how much money/time you spend on
all those great things.

You want to coddle China?

What does changing China from a cold war enemy to a trading partner
have to do with Coddling? That was Clinton who signed the disastrous
trade deal.

So, Nixon "opened up China" but Clinton created a trading partner? How
did Nixon "open up China"? He visited? That's it? He got on a plane?

That is like saying Carter took Begin and Sadat on a picnic in
Maryland. There was a lot accomplished in the talks with China.

Really? Like what? Human rights? Name something substantive that we're
still benefiting from.

The Republicans
nearly botched the latest arms control treaty.

That is not what we are talking about is it?

You mentioned the Start 1. So, it is what we're "talking about' even
if you want to claim I've "changed the subject."

It is hard to talk about Nixon (which is exactly what we were talking
about,) without talking about Start 1

Which leads right to the current treaty that the Republicans almost
ditched... all for politics because their #1 priority is to get rid of
Obama at any cost.

You are doing it again, that is not what we are talking about it.
You are certainly a one trick pony. No matter what we are talking
about, you come back to GW Bush. You are simply obsessed.

I'm sorry if you're unable to answer a simple question.

You and Harry did a pretty good job of saying the good things Bush
did.

So, you refuse to answer. No thoughts of your own I guess.

I am still not sure how Iraq will be scored. It was the worst war we
had at the time but Afghanistan is still young and we don't know what
will happen in the future.

Iraq: Bush's war.
Afg.: Bush's fault.

Iraq might be looked on as a huge success if all of this "peace
keeping" you seem to like, works and Iraq is the first truly
democratic Muslim country. It will all depend on whether democracy
actually does spread across the dictatorships that dominate the middle
east. History could call the toppling of Saddam as the first step to
the new age of democracy in the middle east. (especially if the
Americans get to write it)

So, you are defending Bush... a guy who lied to get us into a war we
didn't need.

History has a way of glossing over screw ups if things come out OK.
Just look at the "missile crisis".

If any good comes out of the Iraq war, it won't be because of Bush.

Now you're equating the missile crisis with Iraq??? GOOD GRIEF!