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Harryk

On 3/4/11 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 08:07:37 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

I've been sorta neutral on the subject of the TAmpa to Orlando high
speed train. Years ago I did vote for the high speed train amendment
to the Fl constitution but only as a way to show how silly it was to
amend the constitution by popular ballot (I also voted on the pregnant
pig amendment that requires prego pigs to be treated nicely). I have
only driven from Orlando to Tampa once and it was no problem so I
never knew why this corridor was chosen but maybe it does have a lot
of traffic.
However, being in Tallahassee, I see a lot of the political crap going
on about Gov Scott vetoing it and looked into the matter.

The feds would pay about half the projected cost and Fl taxpayers the
rest. Might be a good deal but, turns out the cost estimates were
done by the very companies who will benefit from it so are suspect. A
look at ALL other high speed rail projects show cost overruns of
1.8-2.2X and us Fl taxpayers would be on the hook for that
amount...........not so good.

How much time would it save? Wiki has a table showing about 15
minutes at most and that is very optimistic and would probably be less
if they add stops. By the time you add in parking and waiting for a
cab, you lose time.

Ridership, bizarro optimistic projections done by those who will
benefit from the construction.

Operating costs would be paid by FL and there is only one passenger
train in the entire USA that pays its own costs (NE corridor). No way
this one will pay its own way and us taxpayers will end paying these
costs.

Now the kicker. If ridership is low, the feds can decide they want
their 2 billion back from us FL taxpayers. Huh? No way. Cancel this
clunker of a deal now.

Generate jobs? During construction yes. Long term jobs, no. Keeping
the money in pvt hands is well known to generate more jobs.

An interesting measure of potential ridership might be the number of
people who take private buses each day from one end to the other.
Such buses are truly convenient because they normally go right to
where people want to go. I cannot find anybody who has looked into
this as a measurement of possible ridership.

The proponents are saying there will be 3 million riders a year
(roughly the same as the DC/Philidelphia/NYC/Boston train)

I assume they got that by figuring out how much it would take to make
money and working backward.
It is a ridiculous estimate.There are almost 10 times as many people
living in the Boston/DC megopolis than the I-4 corridor all the way
from St Pete to Daytona. (5 million vs almost 50 million)

I am still not sure who would really be riding this train. People are
not going to fly into Tampa and take the train to Disney World when
the train goes right past ORD where the landing fees are lower.

You are right, the residents here will be on the hook for the cost
over runs and the deficits when it finally gets running ... half full
or less.

I don't know any of the particulars of the proposal you're discussing,
but I sure am an advocate of high speed rail, which we don't really have
anywhere in this country. High speed rail in Europe, though, is damned
nice. When I went to Geneva last year, I deliberately got off the plane
in London so I could travel under the English Channel to France and then
to Switzerland by train. It was fast, smooth and an enlightening
experience. On our trips to NY, we always prefer to take the "half-fast"
Acela, which gives you a taste, but little more, of what high-speed rail
could be like. Our trip last December to Florida was pleasant, but no
faster than driving there in our own car. The seemingly hundreds of
unprotected crossings, though, required the engineer to toot the horn a
zillion times along the way.

We need to stop blowing our nation's money on military adventurism, cut
the military by half, at least, and spend the money "saved" on
rebuilding our roads, passenger and freight railways, airports,
highways, bridges and tunnels. That kind of spending pays off for
everyone. Paying for soldiering these days is about the same as ****ing
down a bottomless hole.