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Canuck57[_9_]

On 21/02/2011 12:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 11:02:11 -0800, wrote:

No matter what chart or what fact I show you, you're not going to
change your mind. So, what's the point?

You are the one who keeps changing the subject when you get backed
into a corner. I say SS and Medicare is upside down. You present a
chart that says SS and Medicare are not only upside down but will be
in the red forever and try to say that is fine.

I haven't changed the subject at all. I've said and will continue to
say that this is a long-term problem not a short one. Holding people
hostage of this (what's happening in the House as an example) is worse
than nonsense.

Well it might have BEEN a long term problem in 1964 when Goldwater
wanted to fix it but this is 2011 and the plane has crashed into the
mountain. Outgo is less than income. Both programs are under water and
there is still no real plan to fix it. The current Obama plan seems to
be to reduce revenue, they just reduced the payroll tax 2%. Very
republican of him huh?
BTW your chart does not take that into account.

It's still a long term problem with long term fixes available. It
doesn't need to be fixed this year or next on the backs of the lower
and middle classes. Both programs are NOT underwater, although they
will be if nothing is done. It's a right wing fantasy.

You really need to read a paper or something. This is the second year
that SS has spent more than it takes in, five years ahead of the date
they said that would happen. A decade ago they were even saying this
would not happen until 2018-2019.
From the 2010 SSA trustees report
"Annual cost is projected to exceed tax income in 2010 and 2011, to be
less than tax income in 2012 through 2014, then to exceed tax income
in 2015 and remain higher throughout the remainder of the long-range
period."
Considering their track record on "predictions" I doubt the 2012-2014
surplus will happen. That assumes we are going to reproduce the Bush
boom years of 2004-2006 again.

Medicare has been upside down for years.
From the trustees' report

"HI expenditures have exceeded income annually since 2008 and are
projected to continue doing so under current law through 2013 ...The
HI trust fund has not met the Trustees’ formal test of short-range
financial adequacy since 2003."

The 2014 thing assumes nobody changes the new health care law taxes.

The chance of that was only made worse by Obama cutting payroll tax
revenues by 2% (in the democratic congress) and they are even talking
about more cuts, perhaps dropping the payroll tax altogether.
They added taxes in the health care bill to get a good CBO cost
estimate and before the ink was dry they cut them again.
I think the plan is to dump the whole program into the general find
and remove any illusion that this is anything but a welfare program.
They have been spending any surplus as fast as it came in since 1939
so there is no "trust fund".

Just exactly what fixes do you see coming any time soon?
I know you say we need to raise taxes but your party does not seem to
agree. Both parties have bought into the idea that lower taxes creates
more revenue or that higher taxes stifle the economy (whether it is
down or if it is booming) .
They just want to use the platitudes you parrot that this will get
fixed some time in the future and they kick the can down the road.

So governemnt borrows it for 0.25% interest rate in a 5% environment,
they are then just turning Social Security into a tax revenue source.

Hardly fair. If government wants the money, they should be at least
paying Social Security real-inflation plus 3%.

Hey, everyone wants money for nothing including government. Does not
mean they should be allowed to raid Social Security.

--
Socialism is a great ideal as long as someone else pays for it. And when
no one is left to pay for it, they all can share nothing.