On Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:52:32 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 15:17:52 -0700, wrote:

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:55:26 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:07:36 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:03:37 -0400, wrote:


The fact remains the US was the engine of democracy and the growth
leader of the world in these times

The fact remains that we still are. Our economy is improving, big
corporations are making record profits, but it's going to take a while
to recover from all the years of bs.


The "record profits" do not seem to be trickling down to the workers
(Bob help me out here)
Most of the profit is in marking up chinese goods and selling them. We
still do not make much here anymore.

So, the gov't is to blame because corps are hoarding cash and trying
to influence the election, so that more Republicans can get elected,
who will gut the regulations.

Please cite the profit numbers. Exxon/Mobile is making huge profits
right now. I don't think they're marking up Chinese goods.


Exxon is making money because world energy profits are up. China is
the #2 user of energy (maybe even #1)

So, we shouldn't sell to China? Exxon is a US-based company I believe.



You will have to fight this out with Bob. He certainly thinks you are
wrong ... but you are likely also in the top 5%

Yes, admittedly I'm in the top few percent... certainly not mega rich,
but I can't complain. I don't mind paying a bit more in taxes either.

By your standards I am poor but I also think taxes are too low right
now. Certainly I don't want to send any more money to Washington but
they will spend the money anyway.
It is better not to foist it on our kids.

Huh? This nonsense about the deficit is out of control. Sure, it's a
problem, but certainly not a fatal one.


As for environmental laws. under our current law, there would have
been no Hoover Dam, the LA water system and hence the development of
most of Southern and central California. There would also not have
been a TVA, and that probably meant no atom bomb.

So, we should go back and keep on polluting? That's going to make us
great again?

We only have to look at the super fund sites to see what industries
would not exist with current laws. That may have been horrible
environmentally but it was the opportunity that let us dominate in
technology.

And, again... you want us to dominate what exactly? How about we
actually get our collective sh*t together, which means getting our
sh*t cleaned up, and actually competing through intellect
.

I don't think we ever really competed on intellect. We were just very
good at bringing products to market cheaply and quickly. They were
seldom the best product, nor were they particularly innovative, we
just made a lot of them.

Huh? We have more Nobels than any other country and we're ranked 11th
out of 40 per capita.

So what? That is just intellectuals patting each other on the back. It
has very little to do with the average working person. There is no
Nobel Prize for creating jobs.

You claimed we don't compete nor have competed on intellect. When I
cited actual numbers, you claimed it has nothing to do with the
"average person" or for "creating jobs." That's a total non-sequitur.

The Nobel Prize has very little to do with the average worker. I bet
99% of them can't even name more than one current prize winner in any
category.

Again, this has nothing to do with your original claim. Sounds
anti-intellectual to me.


What would you rather have, a 58 Chevy or a 58 Mercedes Benz?

Depends on it's condition of course. I imagine that there would be
some 58 Chevys that are worth quite a bit.


In the same condition, the Benz is worth a lot more

What if I don't like the look of the Benz? What if I like the look of
the Chevy?

It was a trick question, nobody liked the look of a 58 chevy ;-)

LOL


As for personal freedom, we did not have the woman's right to chose,
civil rights, the EPA, OSHA, CPSC and other things the chinese lack.

Yet we do now. So, you're saying that a woman's right to VOTE or
Choose or be a full citizen was required to be competitive? You're
claiming we should scrap OSHA and the EPA for the sake of competing
with the Chinese??

I agree we do not want to go back to the bad old days but that also
means we will lose significant market share. China is not going to
dominate the solar PV market because they make the best solar
collector. They will dominate because they make the cheapest one.

You can have a 100% market share of the buggy whip industry and still
lose.

Are you saying solar technology is a buggy whip business?

What I said, poorly, is that cheapest isn't always best... nor is
market share the end all and be all of business success.

It has been the best business model for the last 2 decades.
Walmart is the nations most successful retailer, McDonalds is the most
successful restaurant and most of our electronics come from China.

Ummm... 2 decades is a pretty short time frame.

Maybe you want to rephrase.
The fact is, the first company to actually produce that mythical
dollar a watt solar collector is going to rule the world. That is
about where solar actually starts to make sense.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...r-wind/4306443

I guess we're the ruling country.

Let's see if they can deliver that panel for a buck,

It's your claim that producing a panel for that cost is a ruling
event.

Cheaper isn't always better. Example: McDs. And, it's not even clear
that cheaper is actually cheaper in the long run.


Humm, lets see.
Ruth's Chris Steak house stock was $20 in 2007 it is $5 now
McDonalds was $40 in 2007 it is $70 now.
Maybe cheaper is better.

As long as you don't factor in health...

I doubt there is much difference between a steak and a burger, health
wise.

It's all about fat content. Pick the right steak and the wrong burger
(e.g., McDs) and there's a big difference.

Yet Bob says those were the last days that the middle class actually
got a raise. (pre 1973)

I don't know what Bob said.

He said just what I said. The US Middle Class has not had a raise
since 1973 ... and he said it 30 times or more here.

Take it up with Bob. I am not his savior.

It is a statistic that is all over liberal TV, I know you have heard
it.

A statistic? There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I know you liberals are fast and loose with statistics. Bob was
quoting Andrew Sullivan.

I'm not a liberal except socially. Andrew Sullivan isn't a liberal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Sullivan