On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:15:32 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:32:27 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:10:05 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:16:28 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
news:rt9rf5ltoqcpioebfthjrtbs8pqpi7sj8o@4ax .com...
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:16:06 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
news:hq7qf5l8kq4p64fiiflf8jp724lva28her@4 ax.com...
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:26:37 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
news:2oednaCSuqvBSmHXnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@e arthlink.com...

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:45:54 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news:urunf51v88n5ji2qimguc3ksspiivpd ...
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:39:34 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

The argument that we could pull out of Afghanistan if Karzai
doesn't
do what we say is stupid

What we need in Afghanistan, and here, is more boats. Send
in
the
navy and the marines, clear out the terrorist infidels.



Now that's funny... thanks Wayne.

Let's leave the Marine who thinks Greek Orthodox priests are
terrorist
infidels at home.

Hell, lets send him and point out all the radial mullahs.

Radial mullahs? How many tires do you get?

Oh, you mean Radical mullahs.... my bad.

Radial mullahs are the round ones.

Beat the crap out of them too. Or run them down the road.

What did you say you did when in the service?

Fixed radar units in transport airplanes. And you did what in service
to
the country?

I create jobs.

I was a low number in the last year of the draft but they didn't end
up taking anyone since Vietnam was winding down. Military service
wasn't real attractive in the early 70's. No one that I knew thought
we were doing the right thing. My father joined the Marine Corps when
he was 18, spent most of WWII overseas and didn't encourage any of his
kids to join. He did encourage college.

So you did not help the Peace Corp. or do any civic duty. I doubt you
created jobs when you were 20 years old.

Is it some sort of moral law that you're obligated to assist your
country in your 20s? Or is that just your map of the world?

Is a moral law to assist others all through your life. Try it, you might
like it.


I think, Bill, that it might be apropos to address the moral conflict
that JPS may have unwittingly created for himself. In the world view
of most progressives, it is the moral duty of the citizen to pay taxes
to 'assist the country' and to accept the yoke of compulsory health
care for each individual citizen (to 'assist the country'). There's
no genuine distinction between active duty or passive duty on this
one.


I don't know about jps... I think we all have an imperative to help those
less fortunate. I don't know if "moral" is the right word. If nothing more
than my own self-interest, I think it's an important aspect of my life. We
pay taxes to "assist" ourselves. We demand certain services and some of
those are best done by the government without a profit motive. Health care
is one of those things that doesn't really, shouldn't belong to a for-profit
company. There's too much at stake both for the individual and for the rest
of the country. I disagree that it is a yoke. If it is, it's an essential
yoke, such as breathing.

I'm not sure what you mean by active vs. passive duty.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we
are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most
frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous,
talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God.
Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened
about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are
all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory
of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And
as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission
to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence
automatically liberates others."

That's a fairly powerful quote, Em. I don't have the time to respond
to your argument adequately this morning. I'm heading south for the
day to winterize the boat, and that's going to take a good 12 hours.
But, I do want to point out that, even though you may not be doing so,
it is a mistake to confuse 'health care' with the purchasing of
insurance from an insurer who will bear the risk of catastrophic loss
for a smaller set of payments. Immanual Kant devotes much of his
philosophy to developing the premise that the individual does have a
moral duty that derives from an empyrean authority, which is described
in part as Kant's categorical imperative; but, in this he his speaking
of an individual duty, not one mandated by government. If that duty
is impelled by individual appreciation for its moral expediency it has
individual value and meaning. If it's imposed by dint of government,
it is merely a burden. I personally think it fully defies the spirit
of the definition of individual liberty and fundamental freedom that
was profoundly developed by the founding fathers of this country for
the government to mandate that the individual bear such a
responsibiity as to carry health care insurance. And I think the
contention that a health care system rooted in a capitalistic system,
as we have enjoyed for scores of years, one that considers the
inherent quality that a capitalistic system will deliver, is a
reasonable contention. Ultimately, I do believe that we have an
individual duty and moral imperative to help our fellow citizens.
However, I believe that this is a duty that belongs with and to the
individual, and I believe that the individual has a visceral sense of
that duty imbued in him or her by God. I apologize for any spelling
or structural errors in the text of this note, Em. I'm in a rush.

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