wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:26:52 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:57:25 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

The point is, that was a fairly accurate portrayal of the US special
ops training at the time. If they can do it to US trainees, it would
be assumed, in the field, that you could do it to the enemy.


No. That's completely wrong! Just because our troops are trained to
withstand torture doesn't mean we should torture others.


That is a nice living room discussion but people in combat situations
sometimes do not make those distinctions. I am not even sure that was
framed as "torture" in the training, just as an interrogation
technique.
One of the guys I have known most of my life was in Force Recon
(Marines) That is why I know what Nov 10 is ;-)
The trainers beat the crap out of them in training and went out of
their way to harden them to death, pain and general misery. It is
pretty hard to tell these guys, splashing a little water in someone's
face is torture.


This has nothing to do with "combat situations." This has to do with the
CIA
and other similar organizations methodically torturing prisoners. It
didn't
even have to do with getting intel. They already got the intel by using
standard interview techniques. Even the FBI would have none of it.

If you can believe our government there were only a few people
actually waterboarded and they deny what Thunder just posted.
Personally I would not be shocked if some of our Muslim "allies" did
things like that tho.

In any case, it's torture. It doesn't matter if it was done one time or
thousands.

The kindest thing we could do to these guys was to take them to Gitmo.
We could just turn them over to the other tribe. That is one thing
about Muslims. It is not hard to find another brand of Muslim who
hates their guts.

This has nothing to do with kindness or what some other group would or
wouldn't do. We're Americans and are supposed to be better than that. It
doesn't matter what someone has done. They don't deserve to be tortured.
Period.

Do you remember the end of "The sum of all Fears" (Tom Clancy book,
not the movie)

When they didn't think they could do anything with the main suspect
they just turned him over to the Saudis.

Again, I really don't base my philosophy on a movie or fictional book. I
prefer to base my opinions upon the law.


--
Nom=de=Plume