Hi, Doug, and Group,

Addressing your last comment first, Mars, of course, as that's what they do,
is immediately ready to do it, even though the techie there isn't familiar
with the type. So, *I'm* not ready to do it without a great deal more
definitive information.

As to performance, since I'm not afraid of a deeper draft, shoal isn't the
issue. But if a Scheel gives the same performance as a deeper draft, having
a deeper draft to begin with would make the performance that of a
deeper-still draft. That's what I had in mind, and was excited about, but
found that it wasn't so (a designer does not a keel guarantee).

As to the caveats, I hear ya. Righting moment is interesting to me, just
because the ballast seems so small (and the more I research, the less
definitive the answers get, but it seems to be somewhere between 6 and 8.4k
out of 30 displaced, which I consider either minimal or criminal, depending
on the number), and with as big a boat as it is (244 D/L @ 30k), the
addition of a couple thousand pounds shouldn't notably affect performance,
but it might well make it stiffer. If I could add performance (the desired
side effect), that would be great.

However, as I do more research, I'm wary of the ability to add on, other
than FG fabrication (not weight) based on what I'm learning, and if it
doesn't improve the righting moment at the same time, I'm not interested.
Of course, I'm also learning that the information available on these boats
is both extremely sparse (well, call it hard to find, as I've not had much
success at it yet) and contradictory. Without better info, I'm not doing
anything - including buying one (regardless of the urgency impressed upon me
by others, the speculation about mental masturbation rather than boatbuying,
or the catcalls about yet more delay) - yet :{))

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, by proxy)

original left below for context
--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Skip Gundlach wrote:

So, we're looking at boats, and Henry Scheel comes to light. He's
patented
a keel that several manufacturers are paying royalties to use, and what
I
read suggest that rigorous tank testing holds out the superiority to
straight keels, so, presumably, it must be worth *something*...

The Scheel keel is "superior" in the sense that it allows less draft for
roughly
similar righting moment and windward performance. If draft is not an issue
then
there's no point.


...Now to the question. Have any of you done, or know someone who has,
an
addition of such a bulb/wing to an *existing* - not shortened - keel?

Yes, a few.


The
benefits I'd see are better holding, and more ballast, as low as
possible,
against a minimal overall increase in weight

"More ballast" isn't a benefit except with respect to greater righting
moment,
and there are issues there like the strength of the hull & rig, as Matt
has
said. The only vehicle that benefits from added weight is a steamroller.

"Better holding" I think you mean increased hydrodynamic efficiency ie
less
leeway. Adding a bulb isn't going to do anything for this. Adding a
home-brew
wing keel is not likely to help either, it takes very sophisticated design
to
produce a wing that doesn't add more drag than increased lift.



I'm more interested in experience stories, if there are any, or
engineering
reasons for or against, as opposed to 'I think it would...' information.

The boats Ive seen this done to were all relatively small, from 19 to 28
feet,
and none showed any improved performance IMHO and all suffered from
reduced
reserve bouyancy and were slower in light air.

I have seen a few boats have shoal keels with wings put on to reduce
draft, one
was a remarkable success in keeping the same sailing performance and
losing 2
feet off the bottom of a 7' keel. But it turned out a good bit more
expensive
than the owner thought it would be.

BTW I definitely second (or is it third) the suggestion to ask the people
at
Mars Metals.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King