JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:53:46 -0400, NotNow wrote:
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
JLH wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:
On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote:
Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself
'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is).
--
yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k
portfolio. big shwoop.
Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the
material sense, of course).
ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k
to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have
quite an imagination.
Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't
help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped
him at all.
--
?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people
in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc.
THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated
unfairly...
You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from
the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part.
From page 429:
??(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2
spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently
3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant
4 change in the health condition of the individual, including
5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a
6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening
7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a
8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or
9 a hospice program.
10 ??(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
12 treatment or a similar order.
13 ??(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ?order
14 regarding life sustaining treatment? means, with respect
15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
16 the treatment of that individual that?
Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here?
??(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining
16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a
17 program that?
some lines snipped...
5 ??(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake
6holders includes representatives from emergency
7 medical services, emergency department physi8
cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9
tion, state medical association, state surveyors,
10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11
partment of health, state hospital association,
12 home health association, state bar association,
13 and state hospice association.
Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it?
--
John H
All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
No.
What do you mean, what is this group of people if not a "panel"? Read
this again...
(IV) is guided by a "coalition of stake
holders" (panel) includes representatives from emergency
medical services" (panel), "emergency department physicians or nurses"
(panel), state long-term care association, state medical association,
"state surveyors" (STATE SURVEYERS??? Yikes! sounds like a "panel" of
folks who are not interested in you),
agency responsible for senior services, state department of health,
state hospital association,
home health association, state bar association,
and state hospice association. (Panel, panel, panel. And most of 'em
have never even met you before!!!) Read the words, it is a
panel...Period, end of story..
It DAMNED sure isn't a "death panel".
Suppose the "...order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar
order" says, "Stop the treatment."
There is no such thing. You're being misled by the right wing.
Does that not constitute an order for 'death'. What the hell would you
call a panel that issues such an order....a 'Life Panel'?
Again, it's a fallacy.
"Page 425 does deal with counseling sessions for seniors, but it is far
from recommending a "Logan’s Run" approach to Medicare spending. In
fact, it requires Medicare to cover counseling sessions for seniors who
want to consider their end-of-life choices – including whether they want
to refuse or, conversely, require certain types of care. The claim that
the bill would "push suicide" is a falsehood."
Loogy, these guys are crafting a bill which will affect the life of
your daughter's father. Now wake the hell up!
--
John H
All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
About the same time that you wake up and realize that your side is lying
to you, and to America. IF you read it carefully, you'll see that it is
up to the individual NOT a "death panel".
H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:
(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.
(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.
(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.
(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .
(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.
(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders … .
Where in hell in there does it say that a panel can decide whether you
get life support or not?