Ben Atkins wrote in news:6330aa86-ad60-
:

Fair enough. I was unaware of the rules regarding vendors in this
group. In some other forums, they have a place on the board for
professionals offering advice and opinions. I tried to make it clear
that anything that I post might be influenced by my position at Atkins
& Hoyle Ltd. In any case, I will walk this line more carefully in the
future.

Geoff, I took a look at your site and have to say that I hope that one
day I can have Trip Report Index like yours. Very nice setup of the
2000 davits, a perfect example of how to build a proper bridle as
well. May I use some of those pictures for my site?

--Benjamin Atkins
www.atkinshoyle.com



Ben, we've had lots of commercial interest folks as regular posters to
this newsgroup for many years. Peggie, our resident head expert, was
president of one of the major head manufacturers and has helped nearly
every boater here get the most out of their sanitary facilities, whether
her company made them or not.

What's not tolerated is advertising. This isn't a webpage your company
pays for, or a free ride. Newsgroups who buy from "spammers", those who
blatantly advertisers posting incessant advertising, soon end up with no
posters, no content, only spammers. There are hundreds of examples.
This is why it's not tolerated.

You're most welcome by all to JOIN the discussions in this group, which
range from wannabees to cruisers of all types of craft to old farts
retired out of boating or the marine business. The proper etiquette is
to put your company information (webpage, email address, phone number, a
one-liner description) as a TAGline to your text posting at the bottom.
Everyone will soon recognize your company, which can be good for sales
and customer relations, assuming your company is reputable, not one of
the marine shysters making overpriced crap...and a lot of enemies, who
will CERTAINLY post like you've already seen here. Being attacked in
various ways is "normal" for Usenet. The freedom to post anything about
anything, here, instead of some company-filtered web forum that makes
everything look like a marine magazine supported by advertisers that
never says a discouraging word, even about Bayliners, is what keeps us
watching and posting here. If it's crap....and we know it's
crap....you'll read about it here every time.

Now, you have a poster who is a ruined customer from his experience with
your company. Correcting a problem in a public forum across the planet
and renewing your relationship with this customer, exposed for the whole
world to view, is more valuable than all the advertising you buy! These
guys are all on the docks every week and know hundreds, maybe thousands,
of potential customers. The cost of saying to that poster, "send me the
broken part and we'll just send you out a new unit so we can see what's
wrong with our product" spreads like wildfire down the docks across the
planet. "Atkins and Hoyle? Oh, yeah, Ben is one of our friends on
rec.boats.cruising newsgroup. He sent xxxxxx a replacement davit that
broke when he heard about it. That company has great customer service.
Hell, the company Vice President even talks to us!" 18 potential
customers just made a mental note your advertising company could never
provide. Those 18 will remember it when someone they meet needs a
product. All the rosey magazine ads on the planet mean nothing in
comparison. All you did was do the right thing and swap out half a
davit....and chatted openly, and honestly, about it, here so everyone
would see it.....which costs you little of nothing.

You'll see about 30-40 regular posters bickering and punching at each
other, just like at any dock. But, if you look around the net with
Google, you'll see what we say here has a MUCH wider audience to the
boating community that has never been on Usenet. Years ago, I wrote
what I call the "Liveaboard Simulator", a tongue-in-cheek, at home
little exercise to simulate living aboard a sailboat with your mate by
simulating boat conditions in your bedroom. It was only posted here.
Do a Google search on:

"Liveaboard Simulator"

and see how many places my little contribution now shows up in. I just
did it, here, and it shows 294 webpages now have it. I'm very flattered
and humbled by its open distribution...(c;] Here it is on sailnet:

http://www.sailnet.com/list_server/r....php?id=191577

If someone takes an interest in what you do, here, it spreads to all
kinds of crazy places....(c; There are also something in the hundreds
to may thousands of "lurkers", people who read newsgroups, but don't
feel comfortable posting and exposing themselves to this high level of
ridicule. They read the newsgroups from Google Groups or one of the
other webpage reflectors that repeat every word any of us type to here.
I've had people recognize my ham radio callsign I use here. I'm always
shocked when they say, "I've seen your usenet postings on Google
Groups." (I'm also on guard in case what I said made them so mad they
might take a swing at me...(c;])

We welcome you to our little flamewars. Hope your skin is thick enough
to shed off the arrows and stones anyone on here is sure to attract....
(c;] That's what makes it all so much fun!