On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:44:52 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:



I don't disagree with anything you said except it has nothing to do with the
subject, ie. the "rich" getting richer by taking from the middle class.

We're not connecting here. What I said directly relates to the
widening gap between the "rich" and "middle class."
The offshoring of jobs and science is directly related to Wall
Street's (and the corps that trade there) pushing cost cutting to pump
share value. With no thought to government indebtedness due to
balance of trade deficits, or consumer debt, or the future strength of
America.
The winners are the "rich" and the losers are the "middle class."
You may not call that one taking from the other, but that's the end
result. And widely published wealth statistics bear that out.
I don't buy into "political" arguments when non-disputed facts are
available.

The goal of accumulating personal wealth to whatever degree is not bad as
long as it's done legally and without being at the expense of others. This
country was founded on the concept of free markets, competition and minimal
government intervention. The Constitution is written around these concepts.
It worked well for many years producing the strongest economic nation on
earth with a relatively good standard of living for most. Ellis Island and
other immigration locations have records of millions of people who left
their homelands to pursue opportunities here. Still going on.

All fine and dandy except when one examines "at the expense of
others." That "expense" is what's under discussion.

What screws it up is greed in big business (often in response to stockholder
expectations, BTW) and intervention by an increasingly corrupt government,
residing mainly in Congress. There's a role for government to play ....
making sure the playing field is fair by regulations and/or actions to
enforce laws. But when the government officials are as greedy as the big
businesses, all bets are off.


Yep.

Some people just don't like the truth. The problems we have now originated
in lending practices that should never have been put in place. Government
did that. Banks and Wall Street tried to take advantage of it.

It began with 401k money distorting the true value of share prices and
enabling corruption, because "Now everybody can be rich!"
The real impetus for the bad loans came from Wall Street's need to
pump up more "wealth creation" with mortgage derivatives.
Wall Street has been running the government for decades now.
Still is with Geithner. You'll see many revelations about Goldman
Sachs in the near future. The reason Geithner can't get Treasury
assistants is that all of Wall Street is dirty with ill-gained wealth.
Every joker he wants to hire is worth $50-100 million with multiple
houses around the world. Real money. While the rest of the country
is under water. Nobody can pass the smell test, just as he didn't.
I don't see anybody here arguing against American free enterprise.
But we haven't had that in years.
Because we haven't had leaders who understood that Wall Street values
and America's values can't co-exist for long.
Basically we've had a Wall Street politburo directing government
actions to coincide with global financial "values."
We need a revolution to get back to American values.
Those make us stronger, not deeper in debt.

--Vic