"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:16:05 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


What I am disputing is that they increased their wealth by "taking" it
from
the middle class.
That just isn't the case. It's new wealth. It is not something lost by
the middle class.

You'll totally ignoring that the country and most of it's population
is deeply in debt. Why do you call that "wealth"?
I just don't get why people think that selling this country to
overseas interests by offshoring its manufacturing and scientific
development infrastructure is "creating wealth."
Sure, CEO's execs, and the top 3% of income-"earners" are
wealthy, with actual positive net worth.
Then there is some significant portion of the others who have their
heads above water or are doing well because they have been frugal in
their spending and savings.
But they are also indebted when considering their future tax
obligations to pay off the money to the U.S T-notes China has
bought up to support the destruction of America.
The **** is hitting the fan with climbing unemployment, and widespread
and unprecedented home foreclosures.
You still call this "creating wealth"?
My feeling is that political and business leadership has sold this
country a bill of goods regarding how to value "wealth", and you have
taken it hook, line and sinker.
The "system" that was sold is now broken, because it was always BS,
the main BS term being "wealth creation."
In reality it was "debt creation."
Now the debt is coming due.
General wealth comes from productive work and balancing books with
realistic debits/credits, not financial manipulation and cooking books
to ignore debt. The latter enriches the scam artists, no doubt, but
in the end screws the productive.
Now "standard of living" is a different matter, and we have generally
done well with that. Due in large part to debt and global cheap
labor, and taking the path to where we are.
I don't know how those in financial trouble feel about "standard of
living" and what their numbers are, or their level of dissatisfaction.
But they will be the loudly squeaking wheels in the foreseeable
future.
I expect big changes in the definition of "wealth creation."
And a new look at how 401k money allowed Wall Street to become
corrupt. Still haven't seen my 401k view expressed anywhere else.
Maybe because I'm a genius. Or maybe because I'm just wrong.

--Vic


I don't disagree with anything you said except it has nothing to do with the
subject, ie. the "rich" getting richer by taking from the middle class.

The goal of accumulating personal wealth to whatever degree is not bad as
long as it's done legally and without being at the expense of others. This
country was founded on the concept of free markets, competition and minimal
government intervention. The Constitution is written around these concepts.
It worked well for many years producing the strongest economic nation on
earth with a relatively good standard of living for most. Ellis Island and
other immigration locations have records of millions of people who left
their homelands to pursue opportunities here. Still going on.

What screws it up is greed in big business (often in response to stockholder
expectations, BTW) and intervention by an increasingly corrupt government,
residing mainly in Congress. There's a role for government to play ....
making sure the playing field is fair by regulations and/or actions to
enforce laws. But when the government officials are as greedy as the big
businesses, all bets are off.

Some people just don't like the truth. The problems we have now originated
in lending practices that should never have been put in place. Government
did that. Banks and Wall Street tried to take advantage of it.

Eisboch