HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:


The perfect example of why Social Security is going to fail and
why we need to abandon it now. For some people it will be unfair
and it will hurt but that is too bad. Everyone younger than 35
gets no Social Security but, they still fund it.


Corporations with defined pension programs should not be allowed
to "unfund" their pension liabilities.

That's why the unions should be the clearing house for their
members. Provide 100 workers at a rate of $50 per hour to meet a
quota of 500 cars a day. What the union does with the money is
between the union and the workers.

First rule: Get the money up front.


Well, that's similar to what the construction worker unions do.
sort of.

The construction unions negotiate a rate with the contractors...the
contractors pay the workers their hourly paycheck rate and deduct
and forward the required taxes to the feds. The deductions for
health and welfare go directly to the jointly administered
union-contractor health and welfare pension and benefit fund
offices. Anyone who has access to any of the funds at the benefit
is bonded. Typically, the trustees retain a reputable trust funder
"advisor" who helps the trustees invest the funds in "safe"
investments that pay a return higher than the anticipated payout
for pensions and other benefits. There are no unfunded liabilities.
The employer for whom the union workers work has no access to the
pension funds.

These are defined pensions, not 401k's. The employer may offer a
401k, but it isn't typically administered by the joint trustees.

If the UAW doesn't do it the same way, why not?



Because it follows the more traditional industrial-white collar
model, where pension funds tend to be controlled by the employers.,

The construction union model evolved differently because its union
members tended to work for several different employers in a given
year or over the course of a career. That still is the case. So
rather than the traditional model, the construction unions and the
employers whose employees they represent devised a model that
provided *instant portability* for union members. It also works for
the benefit of traveling members who might work in Minneapolis in the
spring, summer and fall, and then in Florida in the winter. If they
work union in Florida, the pension contributions they earn go to
their home local's pension fund so they get credit for it.

Keep in mind that construction unions negotiate a gross hourly rate
and then decide what part of that rate goes to pension and other
benefits. That money is already the money of the union members.


Is the UAW run be idiots? It sure sounds like it. The UAW "executives"
think they are tough negotiators but in reality they just feed off of
the crumbs that the auto manufacturers toss them.


I'll be polite. You do not know what you are talking about in this matter.

Why does the UAW let the auto manufacturers keep the pension money for
the union members?

Why does the UAW let the quto manufacturers keep the benefit (medical,
dental, etc...) money for the union members?

What benefit do union members receive from the UAW?