On Mon, 31 May 2004 12:30:44 GMT, wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:04:37 GMT, (Steven Shelikoff) wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 00:09:52 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:38:12 GMT, (Steven Shelikoff) wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 13:07:20 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 11:48:34 GMT, (Steven Shelikoff) wrote:

On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:34:52 GMT, wrote:

Sorry, Bub, but you are completely wrong. All the applicable codes say you
cannot solder those connections, and that's been the law for ages. As someone
has already pointed out, if you solder all the connections in your boat, it is
going to cost you big time at resale time, as it will all have to be ripped out
and redone properly at SOMEBODY'S expense. The boat will be uninsurable and no
bank will finance it either, with that hack wiring job.

Soldering connections on a boat is perfectly fine as long as the
connection is supported by a strain relief. In fact, a well done solder
joint+strain relief is considered by most to be far superior to a
crimped on connection. Solder without strain relief is a no-no.

Steve

Incorrect. A boat will not pass an insurance survey if the electrical system has
been soldered. That's all that really matters. No insurability = no resale, no
marinas or yacht clubs, no financing.

Incorrect. Many boats with soldered electrical connections have passed
insurance surveys and are in marinas all over as well as are financed.
If your surveyor fails your boat due to soldered connections, ask him
why he's going against ABYC electrical standards since the ABYC rules
allow for soldered connections as long as the solder is not the sole
means of mechanical support for the joint, which makes sense.

ABYC E-8.15.19 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical
connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so
located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the
solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.

Exception: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than
1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.

Your mistake to make, I guess. It will be an expensive one.

No mistake at all. Anyone who knows anything about electrical
connections will tell you that a properly soldered joint is electrically
superior to a crimped joint.

I guess that's why the U.S. military doesn't use solder in any of it's aircraft
wiring.

And where did you hear that little tidbit of incorrect information? The
military and NASA both use soldered connections where appropriate.
There are MIL and NASA specs governing soldered connections. And while
engsol gave a good lesson in soldering connections in an offshoot
thread, if you want to see the NASA spec on soldered connections, it's
he

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/solder.htm

If you look at the part of the document in
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/sdr1922.pdf you'll see pictures of
acceptable soldered connection of a multistranded wire into a cup pin
termination. I know from personal knowledge that this kind of
connection is found on the inside of connectors on many military
aircraft. The connector has support for the wire at it's exit so there
is no strain or vibration at the stranded to solid wire junction.

And if it's properly supported, that
removes the one problem with a soldered joint, stress at the
stranded/solid junction. That's why the ABYC allows for soldered wiring
on boats if the there is another mechanical support to remove stress and
vibration on the solder junction.


The ABYC is currently revising their standards to eliminate soldering as
acceptable.

And where did you hear that?

I guess we should ask you where you got the idea that soldered wiring
will, in and of itself, cause a boat to fail an insurance survey despite
the ABYC allowing it?

Because the insurance industry has it's own ideas about what it will and will
not insure. They don't always follow ABYC or any other independant standard,
although they certainley can if they feel like it. Insurance companies have a
direct interest in prohibiting anything which they known to be an unnecessary
risk.

Which is why they allow solder on a connection. Can you point to any
examples of a boat failing an insurance survey because of soldered
wiring where the connection followed the ABYC rules?

Especially when many boats pass insurance surveys
even if they don't meet all of the ABYC rules.

So, all surveyors are competent, honest and have advanced knowledge in all areas
of boat construction? I have news for you. Surveyors, for the most part, are
yard bums who pass a 20 question multiple choice quiz and pay a fee to join a
"Surveyors Association". It's not easy to find a truly competent one.

And you expect these incompetent surveyors to notice soldered
connections and fail the boat because of it?

Meanwhile, for those not completely glazed over - soldering boat wiring is the
absolutely wrong thing to do. This is nothing new. Try to find a new boat (ONE
boat) wired from the factory using solder. You won't. HINT: It's called "product
liability lawsuits".

Wrong. It's called "skilled labor intensive", which costs a whole lot
of money. If you're claiming it's because of product liability
lawsuits, you should be able to find an example of a boatmaker being
successfully sued because of soldered wiring that followed the ABYC
rules. I'd love to see that.

Steve