Bouler added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

There are really two parts of the Titanic disaster/tragedy still
being investigated: the causes related to Capt. Smith's decision to
(apparently) ignore warnings from other vessels and modern
information just now coming to light as to structural weaknesses in
the hull of the ship itself. For the latter, one can point to the
design standards for metalurgy and riveting of the day as well as
theories still being investigated as to whether a gash was actually
ripped open on the starboard side or just many plates that buckled.
Also, new information suggests that the bottom of the hull fatally
scraped along an outcropping the the ice berg which ruptured the
hill longitudinally for some distance. Both are virtually
impossible to prove or disprove even with several successful dives
on the wreakage site because the hull sits in a position where it
is impossible to determine a root cause and reluctance to bring up
any more steel makes it difficult to do more extensive metalurgy
studies. For the former, one can read the eye witness accounts of
the sinking from survivors and see gross inconsistencies, such as
whether the hull did or did not break in half before the ship went
down (it is now clearly known that it did crack in half as the bow
and stern sections of the wreakage are a couple of miles apart).

You're very well informed.

Thank you, I try. This stuff does interest me, although I do have to
admit many areas where my technical expertise is severly lacking. I
know I burned DVDs from some History Channel episodes maybe a year or
so ago. If I get ambitious enough, I'll try to find them but I have
made a mental note to re-record them again on my DVR. It's a dumb
coincidence that a rather long episode or two aired just last week, I
think, relating the story of Titanic's construction, it's major
structural and safety weaknesses, details of the sinking itself, and
results of the most recent dives on the wreak, which I think began in
2002 and maybe ended a year or two later (but I'm rather hazy about
that, please help me out if you can).

And then, we can discuss the primative and dangerous safety
standards of the day wrt life boats, etc. Thank God, though, at
least for wireless. Now, for many aspects of the Titanic sinking,
Bouler, you're into MY areas of expertise, especially those of
engineering and amateur historian, but NOT those of a nautical
nature per se.

I had the feeling I was stimulating you in this case and I as
rightgrin

Maybe I should have put in a grin or two of my own, but each of us is
gifted in different ways. Perhaps one of mine to compensate for lack of
foreign language skills is what people tell me is a logical mind and an
insatiable appetite for new information. In fact, it has been a basic
philosphy of mine back at least to my High School days as a teen-ager
that learning is a life-long endeavor. Unfortunately, ALL of my
classmates in Engineering School were like me and I suddently found
myself as a brand new freshman in 1965 going from top 5% in my H.S.
class to about the bottom 5-10% and on academic probation for 3
trimesters. One more and I'd have flunked out. Still in all, I barely
made it, I recall something like only a 2.32 or so GPA. Lots of pretty
smart men and women go to engineering school and the admissions process
we used here prior to affirmative action initiatives guaranteed that
only the best of the best got in.

Now, with THAT as the statistical "population" upon which grades are
"curved", it isn't hard to see that I might've been able to understand
what the hell was happening and still damn near flunk out! But, that's
as it should be, I suppose. Who'd want cars or buildings or ships
designed by engineers who are pretty damn dumb? So, knowing how tough
it was for me as an undergraduate made it crystal clear that I could
not earn even a master's degree or earn Michigan Professional
Engineer's Certificate.

Have a good day and thanks for a stimulating discussion!

It was not that bad Jerry;-)

Thank you, Bouler, I appreciate the critique. It is better not to
lead with one's chin when venturing into areas where one does not
have a lot of knowledge and/or is unsure of one's facts, don't
you think?

Very wise spoken Jerry.

I learned this trick from an older engineer early in my Chrysler
career when I still thought I was God's gift to the science and
practice of engineering. Briefly stated, I was told quite profanely
and quite abruptly that if one thinks they know, say, 85% of a
given thing and wish to find out the rest from the true experts,
the LAST thing to do is state all the stuff already known. Rather,
I was told, to be very humble and ask the expert to explain the
basics of the issue, listen patiently during the 85% already known,
then perk up the ears when the remaining 15% is told. The
advantage, which I came to find out later was especially valuable,
is that the true expert is now one's friend and my reputation is
enhanced as a reasonable person rather than what some people call a
smart-ass or young whipper snapper. You might recall during our
gettting to know each other phase here that I used this technique
politely to learn the true nature of the on-topic ships for this NG
under the guise of asking a question about my understanding of the
term "tall ship", and NOT stating my facts as if they were the
Gospel because while I thought I was correct, I KNEW that you would
have the right definition for the various categories of sail and
powered boats and ships.

Again, thanks for the excellent discussion.

Very smart after all;-)
Nobody knows 100% of something is my humble opinion.
A specialist is someone who knows almost everything about almost
nothing.

I agree. Just like the gun slinger days of the old American West, where
there was ALWAYS someone faster on the draw, there is always someone
smarter than you and wealthier than you. But, there is also at least
one person dumber and poorer than you, also! grin here, no insult
intended Seriously, one of my favorite saying from the Dirty Harry cop
movies is "a man's GOT to know his limitations", that is, be humble one
can NEVER know it all, no matter how hard or long one tries, because
the colllective body of knowledge on even a narrow subject is exploding
so fast.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a ****!"