"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote:

Tom ,, let's see if I can make this clear. In the first posting, Skip
talks about a channel [Hawk Channel] he
had to deal with that is according to him very narrow ..

This posting is followed by Wilbur, saying he knows the channel and Wilbur
calls Skip
a liar and writes ..

"Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from Miami
to Key West"

So Skip calls Wilbur a non cruiser and writes "As before, I invite you to
tell us of where you've cruised in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it...".

Like most folks on this newsgroup, I have followed Skip's adventures. His
build, sinking, repair, and then his trip up
the coast, a few medical and mental issues,, and now his trip down the
coast...

My input,, Skip hasn't really gone Cruising yet. He has done some coastal
sailing, but not really gone off, over the
horizon .. and that is what I feel is a true Cruiser.

I don't really agree with this and I think it is an artificial
distinction. If we agree then only people who qualify for full
membership in the SSCA (I think it is 1500 miles without stopping of
something of the sort) or delivery skippers who are not in the ICW or
coastal cruising would be cruisers. I don't think being a delivery
skipper qualifies, even though some of them certainly go off over the
horizon. We wouldn't qualify because we do not go offshore for more
than about 36 hours max. Bob says it is because I'm chicken, and I
suppose I am, but maybe that is because I am exercising good judgment
about what is appropriate for us.

You can have your definition - no one can keep you from doing that.
But we don't have to agree.

I said what my definition was - someone who lives on the boat (by
which I mean more than a weekend or even a couple of weeks - whether
or not they have a house) and moves the boat from place to place (no
marina queens)

The thing about coastal sailing is - you really need MORE skill to do
it and not less. Out in the ocean it is mostly a matter of weather,
and watches with nothing much to hit, and in a lot of places, nothing
much to hit you.

I don't think Skip can rely on his experience living on his boat and doing
some coastal sailing as an answer to
someone who questions his veracity about a certain channel. My feeling is
until he actually goes off on an open
ocean passage, until he sets out for that island over the horizon, and then
returns, or at the very least accomplishes
some trip that is more than a day sail, then he must answer the question
with facts, his experience in the channel,
etc rather than to say "We're out doing it".

He has been out for more than a day - that's how he got into trouble
in the first place. And I think it also counts as to whether someone
is heading out there even if they haven't gone yet. Planning and
getting ready is part of it.

For example, if the Pardey's
wrote that the channel was narrow, and someone
posted that it wasn't .. I would side with the Pardey's since they have
years of experience cruising to all kinds of different
anchorages.

The Pardey's have more experience than just about anyone, but it would
be more relevant as to whether they had experience with the particular
location under discussion. If they haven't been there, their
experience has no bearing on the issue and gives them no particular
standing.

Hawk Channel isn't an anchorage. One of the problems for us is that
there aren't any reasonable anchorages for a deeper draft boat (5 feet
or over) where we would naturally need them.

Hawk Channel is the area between the offshore reefs and the various
islands in the Keys. It is about 160 miles long by road. There are
only a few places where one can get to the other side of the Keys, and
between Miami and Marathon there are almost no protected places to
anchor on the ocean side except behind either Rodriguez Key or
Tavernier and those don't usually come at a good time for a day's
sail.

We have staged at Rodriguez for a jump across the Gulf Stream to the
Bahamas, leaving at night. Or rather leaving before dark so that I
can still see where we are going and can go through the gaps in the
reef. It is difficult to anchor there because the holding isn't too
good..

In my opinion, Skip needs to show me more in the way of sailing trips before
he gets my "Yup, Skip knows what he is
talking about and Wilbur is a jerk"

I am a coastal sailor. If I wrote that the channel into Portland, Maine was
XXXXX and someone said I was a liar,
I couldn't just say "I've been sailing longer than you so take that"..

I would need to explain. Tell why I though the channel was narrow. Maybe
for me it was. Maybe Skip is
cautious and what he thinks is narrow is a big open ocean to another.

I hope this clears up what I meant.

Now .. maybe Skip will explain the difference between his view of Hawk
Channel from Wilbur's view of the same channel.

He's already done that.