Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 06:49:29 -0500, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:21:17 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
The problem, at least here in CT, are the apprenticeship rules the
state adopted. We have a top flight state tech school system and the
kids who go through the programs are motivated. The problem with the
electrical/plumber programs comes after graduation. Each licensed
plumber or electrician can only have one apprentice. With dictated
pay scales and full benefits, plus mandated insurance costs, the
package costs the employer more than he can afford for each
apprentice. So for independant electricians/plumbers are in a losing
proposition even if they want to take on apprentices. Add in the time
required, even with school credits, to make Journeyman status and they
flat out can't afford it.
That is the "union problem".
They are like the medical establishment. They go out of their way to
limit the number of people in the business.
Ha! In the typical union model, the union runs the apprenticeship
programs for the three to five year course of study, depending upon the
trade, and once they complete the courses and training, they are
considered journeymen and are eligible to take the licensing
examinations.
Which is no different than a trade school, except their time in
training is considered as apprenticeship time which means that they
have to complete OJT as an apprentice.
I've been told by a number of electricians and plumbers that the Union
training programs create false expectations in terms of both wage and
real world conditions.
I'm not familiar with what Connecticut does, but the model
I cited is prevalent most other places. A decent number of young
apprentices enter the program after completing a 12-week Job Corps
program in which they learn basic "work" skills and a little bit about
the trades.
Are they paid while they are in Union training?
The whole point of apprenticeship is to pay your dues, learn your
trade and work under the direction of a Master tradesman.
Not jump immediately to Journeyman status.
If it takes three to five years to complete an apprenticeship program,
how is the graduate jumping immediately to journeyman status?
Of course they are paid while being trained. They are productive from
the end of the first week. The first week, typically, is spent on safety
training so when they get out to the jobsite as helpers, they are less
likely to get killed. On an electrical job, for example, new apprentices
usually are out on the job running wire, prepping wire, cleaning up. Do
you think they should not be paid for these activities?
I happen to know a lot about union apprenticeship programs in the
masonry, electrical and plumbing trades. None of the programs is aimed
at turning out low-end residential workers who build houses. That's for
the unskilled work force.