Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:48:47 -0800, Joe
wrote:

On Nov 13, 3:37 am, "JimB" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Nov 12, 5:25 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
I agree that the only thing that stays the same is change, but we
should focus on change for the better. Or do you just feel you are
here for the ride, and should just go with the flow and consider
exhausting instead of conserving resources as a natural process?
Joe
Change from when? The whole of evolution has been about competition between
species to survive as the available resources change. We had a carbon
dioxide atmosphere once - but that was consumed by tiny sea living creatures
whose skeletons now form enormous mountain ranges. Later, it was consumed by
plants which formed beds of coal; their waste prodcut was oxygen. That
permitted fish to evolve, consuming oxygen waste.

So, we're going back to an earlier baseline - returning some of that carbon
dioxide to the atmosphere. As the video says, choose your baseline.

I'll agree that change is the permanency (if that makes sense). If that's
the case, it's better to adapt to change, rather than try to prevent it. Is
that what you'd call 'going with the flow'? It's certainly going against the
current popular flow of 'resistance to change'.

And while I'm at it, I don't like his emotive choice of cockroaches and rats
as sole survivors. Nor his emotive use of dolphin pictures (BIG fish eaters)
to illustrate diminishing numbers of fishes. He didn't intend it that way of
course, he was just trying to capture our hearts with pictures of species we
love - even if they're consuming available resources . . .

Lets consider more 'adapting to change', rather than trying to prevent it .
. .

--
JimB
Google 'jimb sail' or gowww.jimbaerselman.f2s.com
Compares Cruise areas of Europe
Some things you must adapt to, as you can do nothing about it. Some
things you can change for the better by adapting to more intelligent
ways of doing things. To say overfishing, or polluting our oceans is a
natural process is wrong. It is something that we can change by our
habits and methods.

Do you think the turtle decline was due to too much CO2 in the air?
Abalony in CA? RedSnapper and Grouper in the Gulf decline because of
global warming.
Do you think the stone crabs just threw off both pincers because the
suns shining too bright? Bar something like a comet strinking the
earth, or some type of catastropic event tell me of anything in
earth's history that species are dis-appearing or declining at this
rate?

Or was it because of turtle stew and tourist trinkets, Abalony &
garlic with wine, stupid idiots who could remove one claw from a crab,
but take both, and too many Snapper boats?

Dolphins do not eat to much fish. They were born in the sea and
deserve all the fish they can eat. Next you will be claiming whales
eat to much krill, and baby seals have too much warm fur.

You're making too much sense.

--Vic

If I may........change is inevitable, the mission of the video was to
point out that we do adjust and then forget, loose track of, just how
far we have adjusted.

The video producers did also have a interior message that it would be
good to go back to where were were. I agree but, most sadly, we can
not. Change is among us and we must adjust.

On reason to understanding change completely is so that we can
understand the cause of the change and thus adjust appropriately. We
need to see the whole picture clearly, there is little obvious advantage
to ignorance, except that it makes the short term easier to bear.

Now my rant....there are many reasons why the ocean is in such rough
shape. But there is one common underlying reason why it is unlikely to
get any better. Simply put, there are too many mouths to feed.

I think, though I can not prove, that the oceans are in worst shape than
agriculture is that agriculture has been propped up by massive inputs of
calories (fossil fuels.) The oceans do not as easily lend themselves
to such manipulation. Thus the collapse you see in the oceans is a
future glimpse of what you will see in agriculture.

In short, we are in deep trouble, as a species. The short term (my
life) will be OK. My daughters life will not. That sucks.

Not meant to be a scientific argument but speaking from my gut and
intuitive understanding.