On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 12:31:02 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


"JimH" wrote in message
.. .


http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~fa...g/Steering.htm

http://www.terrycolon.com/1features/bike2.html

Looks like countersteering is the initial process in turning a bicycle as
one *has* to lean into the turn, even at slow speeds (where the lean is
not obvious).

My apologies to you and John. ;-)


No apologies necessary, to me anyway. You said nothing to offend me.

Ok ... got air in the tire on the bicycle finally and pedaled off down our
long, sloping driveway.
To my surprise, although the effect is there, it is very subtle when
compared to that on the Harley, so much so that I had to try it over and
over to convince myself it was there.
There is absolutely no question on the Harley .. a gentle push will initiate
a major course change, but not so on the bicycle. I tried at various speeds
up to 14 mph and didn't notice a whole lot of difference. The effect *is*
there, but you actually have to be looking for it to notice and to not
confuse it with other balance issues. I can clearly see why a
non-motorcyclist like ShortWave could hop on a bicycle looking to experience
countersteering and wondering what the heck we were talking about.

I also have a new theory. I suspect that countersteering is more pronounced
the heavier the two-wheeled vehicle is. On the 1000 lb Harley (bike and
rider) the effect is very pronounced.
I suspect a smaller, lighter dirt bike would not exhibit the effect to the
same degree.

Anyway, I do it all the time on the motorcycle. As JohnH pointed out it's a
natural reaction to avoiding a rock or muffler or something in the road
ahead that's coming up fast when cruising along at 70 mph.

Eisboch


I'd expect the trail on your bicycle to be much less than that on your
motorcycle, and the motorcycle has much more momentum helping it lean.

Also I noted thunder's comment about the gyroscopic effect of the wheels.
Terry Colon, in the reference JimH provided, commented on that:

"Counter-steering tilts your motorcycle into a turn faster than you can
lean it shifting your own weight by using the motorcycle's momentum to
force itself into the desired tilting angle."

and, "Some folks will tell you it's the gyroscopic effect of rotating the
front wheel tilting your bike in counter-steering. Some folks would be
wrong."