"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 May 2007 12:07:52 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 31 May 2007 09:20:46 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:47:40 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:12:30 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:



That is a ridiculous special case..... if you keep pushing, the
response of the motorcycle will be as above.

This phenomenon is just an exercise in balance control, not steerage.

Check out my reply to Tom, or just go to:

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP163.html

Why would Eisboch and I lie about this?

1) Don't be so sensitive.... nobody is calling you a liar.

2) Maybe I don't understand what you are saying. How can you:

a) Be moving
b) push on a right handlebar, causing it to move a little
c) continue pushing on the handlebar
d) have the handlebar not continue moving forward or stay in position
in the direction it is pushed, thus not moving the tire to the left
e) hence, not causing the motorcycle to turn left?

If you are moving at speed and do what you describe, you will move the
front tire to the left, but you will be in a right hand turn or sliding
on
the pavement. Put on some leathers, borrow someone's bike, and try it!

Now, if you are saying that this has something to do with a brief push
on the handlebar and an ensuing off-balance condition causing a lean,
which then causes a turn, I understand that!

A brief push will cause the bike to lean in the direction of the turn
and
then turn, if the push is continued. If the push is too hard for too
long,
you will end up on the ground, on your left side.

If so, I return to my original position that this special case is way
more about understanding balance on a motorcycle than it has with
steerage. Assuming the given that *any* lean on a motorcycle will
cause a turn.

3) Somewhere, I lost the connection between this phenomenon and
docking?

JimH used an analogy of turning a bicycle when explaining how to dock a
boat. His analogy was backwards.

Go check out the site I gave Tom. It explains countersteering when
riding
a
two-wheeled vehicle with a raked front end.

You keep talking about "at speed". Just what is the speed you're
referring
to?


Faster than walking, say 15 mph or more. At a slow enough speed, like
walking speed, the rake of the front end makes no difference in turning.
If
you push left, you'll go right, just like a tricycle.

Well thank you very much. I thought I had been steering a bicycle wrong all
these years.