On Mon, 21 May 2007 04:20:37 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 May 2007 00:13:19 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"Scotty" wrote in message
...
unions are a major contributor to the down fall of this
country.

They certainly contributed significantly to the outsourcing of
manufactured
goods to foreign countries.

Max

Since I may be the only one here who has actually run a large union
organization, negotiated contracts, and sadly, negotiated both the
decision and the effects of a closing contract, I would have to
challenge that statement. The Union in my organization had absolutely
nothing to do with the outsourcing of manufactured goods to foreign
countries, unless you call earning an average of 13.50/hour for
highly productive work, with basic benefits like health care provided
on a cost sharing basis a contributing driver.

UAW members love to quote their "meager" wages of only $22 per hour, plus or
minus. Of course they never volunteer the others aspects of their contract
package that net them somewhere in the $40 to $50 per hour range, like
health care, retirement package, disability income insurance, etc. When a
foreign concern employs workers in the $5 to $8 per hour range, it makes it
really tough for a manufacturer to stick it out with the union workers.


Corporate greed was a driver. The Union and most Unions have no
protection what so ever from outsourcing and they are like a "deer in
the headlights" where it is concerned. And that outsourcing takes
place wether there is a union or not.

It's always "greed," isn't it. Profit is a nasty word, eh? Fact is that no
one, not even you, will work for nothing. Profitability is what business is
all about, and one's shareholders generally want to see earnings on their
investments. If one's labor costs are limiting his profitability, he looks
for cheaper labor, and generally finds it offshore where unions don't exist.


Health care costs was a driver. In my many years of struggle against
cost increase, I could always offset cost of living labor increases
with productivity, impact material costs postively, lower total unit
overhead by consolidation and growth. The only costs I could never
control were health care costs. Double digit percentage increases
every year. No matter what kind of effort I put into changing TPA's,
(we were self insured) negotiating new provider networks and
prescription drug contracts, etc. When I embarked on a way to
"target" potential health risk employees (meaning potential high
dollar heart or cancer cases), not to eliminate them, but to incentify
them into a wellness program, the government stepped in and passed the
latest version of HIPPA, effectivly killing the program.

I won't dispute any of that. It's a problem faced by business and
government. And there are no easy answers. Bear in mind, however, that
third-party carriers (health insurance companies) are, and have been,
recording record profits during the past decade or so. Managed care is
really "managed profits." It's a shame that the bulk of the recent
increases in health insurance costs can be directly attributed to an
industry that in actuality has no relevance in the diagnosis and management
of disease, or wellness.

I missed this one on the other post. See that I said I was self
insured. I used a third party administrator who charged $11.00 per
insured family, per month. And kept that same rate for the last 5
years. So the problem I saw was not the insurance companies, I only
bought $100,000 deductible catastrophic. That rate went up once in
five years. The problem was the suppliers and providers, cause that
was all that was left.

Don't get me started (Oh, you already have:~))

Certainly there are bad unions and possibly many of the UAW locals
qualify. My experience with the USWA could not be classified as such.
And most locals around the country are more typical of what I
experienced.

No one is foolish enough to believe that all unions are guilty of the greed
that exemplifies the UAW. But that union is a major player and constitutes
much of what is costing jobs in this country. It's a no-brainer to want to
reduce one's labor costs, especially if it can be in the 40% to 50% range,
or more.

Max