* Peter Hendra wrote, On 3/20/2007 4:45 AM:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:19:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Peter Hendra wrote, On 3/17/2007 10:20 PM:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 15:46:33 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Gentlemen, Gentlemen, please lighten up.

There was no obvious attemp at plagarization.
Of course there was. Don't be naive.

Nowadays we all cut and paste things we find on the web as
explanations. Seldom, unless it is portrayed as one's own writing,
which this clearly did not, does anyone give the source.
This is absolutely wrong. If you lift text, you must says its lifted,
and should provide the source. Always.

Yes, perhaps each item should give credit, but does this particular
situation really warrant such emotion.
Perhaps the emotion is not warranted, but the sentiment is valid.

Besides NE sailboat is a
frequent poster. He never claims to be an expert.
Nor would he ever be confused for one. That might explain why he was
caught in 7 minutes.

I really do think that you are going overboard here. I have been an IT
professional for over 30 years, much of that in management for
Government and companies such as Vodafone and IBM. I have written, do
write and have received many reports, recommendations with supporting
details etc. These days, virtually nobody using the web to collate
information gives the references unless it is a specific and unique
document supporting the recommendation.

Sorry, lifting a big chunk of copyrighted text without attribution is
wrong. Perhaps I'm a bit sensitive, having started in the academic
world where doing that would be a career ending move. But its still
wrong.



When a Powerpoint presentation is composed and presented - how often
do you see any reference to the "facts" or the source? - Virtually
never.

True, its less common where basic "facts" are concerned. But them,
how many "facts" on the internet are true?

And besides:
"facts do not owe their origin to an act of authorship. The
distinction is one between creation and discovery: the first person to
find and report a particular fact has not created the fact; he or she
has merely discovered its existence. [...] Census-takers, for example,
do not "create" the population figures that emerge from their efforts;
in a sense, they copy these figures from the world around them."
- Justice O'Connor giving majority opinion, Feist Publications, Inc.
v. Rural Telephone Service Co., 499 U.S. 340 (1991)

In this modern world, one is not expected to be expert on
everything. In fact it is undesirable in many ways because there is
then a tendency amongst individuals to believe that they are THE
subject matter experts and then learn new developments less than those
who are aspiring in their expertise. Frankly, when I ask for a report
or recommendation, I expect the person to research the facts and
present those that are valid, substantiated and pertinent in a concise
and coherent manner. I couldn't care less where it all came from. I
expect the person to do their best.

That's different, it called research. And if you did ask where the
data came from, they should be prepared to answer.


I do however object to anyone claiming to be the originator of
documents that are the product of somebody else. I want to kill when
it happens to me.

Of course. And that is what was done. A full paragraph, about 150 words.


This is not the situation in this case. No sensible web user who has
posted as frequently as the poster referred to would assume that
others do not know how to search.

You're being naive - I see this often.


Why not give people the benefit of the doubt?

NE lost that privilege a while back.

The world would be a so
much nicer place and so would this group without all the pathetic
"bitchiness" that is posted. If a person is a plagariser or guilty of
some other heinous offence, then sooner or later they will be caught
out and lose credibility.

In this case it took seven minutes.


Shrub lied constantly about "weapons of mass destruction" and
"international terrorism support" and yet the American people still
re-elected him. Every press conference I see on TV has him still
chanting the lie. Why don't you all write to him direct or protest in
front of the Whitehouse if you feel so virtuous?

Did he lie? Or was he too stupid to realize others were lying to him?
I say its a tossup.


Waiting for the fire
Peter Hendra

My ten cents worth
It seems to me I've heard this phrase before ...