wrote:
Am looking at a boat from Dicks Sporting goods...they have it branded
as a Woodsman by Wilderness. Wilderness is part of Confluence
Watersports which owns Dagger and Mad river, looks like it is made by
Mad River it is a Horizon 15 with wood/nylon webed seats. It is a
royalex boat that is 15'2" and weighs 56lbs. Has vinyl rails,
It is on clearance for $450 right
now....http://www.madrivercanoe.com/zoom_bo...zon_15_rx.jpg#
Any experience with one/ royalex?
Thanks
Toby

Ready for another treatise? :-)
Short version: ABS is usually very good, Mad River can be quite good,
and the price is maybe too good to be true.

Longer version:
'Royalex' is the trade name for one of Uniroyal's particular layouts of
a sheet made from a foam ABS core sandwiched between two ABS layers,
with a protective vinyl coating over the whole thing. Each boat
manufacturer has their own particular formula for the thickness of the
foam core, the thickness or number of sandwiching layers, and the type
of protective coating, but Uniroyal makes them all. When we refer to an
ABS boat, Royalex (or Royalite, a thinner, lighter layup) is what we
are usually referring to.

ABS is a very common boat hull material, and spans the range of
qualities of boats. There are some rather cheap boats made of ABS, some
good midrange ones, and some top of the line ones. The difference in
boat quality is primarily factor of quality of the ABS. Some boats,
like Coleman, use a very thin layup of ABS to save weight, and aluminum
tubes to help it keep its shape. This is bad. Older ABS, such as that
used in Blue Hole canoes, was laid up quite thick to give it rigidity,
producing a solid, but heavy, boat. This is currently considered bad,
but once upon a time it was state-of-the-art. Most modern boat
manufacturers, such as Mad River, Old Town, Whitesell, Dagger and
Lincoln, use a layup that is thick enough to be rigid, but not so thick
as to be heavy. Manufacturers are figuring it all out and are getting
good at getting strength without too much weight.

As a hull material, it has tremendous advantages: very durable,
flexible (will pop back into shape if you bend your boat around a
rock), quite impervious to the elements (unless you scrape off the
plastic coating, upon which UV rays will dramatically weaken the ABS),
forgiving (over time or with a little heat applied from a hair dryer,
creases and wrinkles will disappear), and slippery on the rocks
(depending on the covering material). Your grandkids could well inherit
your new ABS boat.

It does have some disadvantages: an ABS boat can be pretty heavy, they
are hell to repair, and once they DO wear off the plastic coating, they
will silently get weaker and weaker from the UV rays. I have an ABS
Blue Hole from the 1970s that is almost unusable from UV rot. On the
other hand, I have gotten several hundred thousand miles out of it and
bought it looking like a pretzel...

So in general, I think ABS is an excellent choice of material for a
beginner. Its as close as you can get to a 'wash and wear' boat; you
can leave it out all winter, it requires almost no care, and can
withstand a lot of abuse.

Now, about the hull: Mad River used to be one of the premiere boat
manufacturers in the world....I believe their owner, Jim Henry, was the
first to make canoes out of ABS. About 7 years ago he sold his company
to Confluence Watersports, and their manufacturing operation moved to
North Carolina. Unfortunately, many of his workers did not want to
relocate from Vermont, so the manufacturing skill and experience did
not move with the company. For the first few years, the quality of MR
boats deteriorated significantly, and eventually Confluence moved
operations to South Carolina, retooled and retrained, and started
improving their turnouts. From what I hear, they have gotten back to
making pretty good boats, but their hulls aren't yet up to the standard
of older 'New Hampshire' hulls. They tend to be a bit heavy, and often
have weak spots and cosmetic blems.

That being said, they still have a good reputation. I own two MRs, but
they are Vermont hulls. I have seen several NC and SC hulls that were
not so great, so look closely for 'blems' in the boat. These will be
any of the following:

- open blisters that look like little pockmarks or craters. They can be
as small as a pencil lead, or as large as a quarter. Don't accept ANY,
as they are places where the ABS core is exposed to the UV rays.
Sometimes they come in clusters, other times they come singly.
-swirly patterns in the plastic covering. These represent different
densities of the plastic, and over time the covering can delaminate at
these places.
-big airbubble blisters. These can be as big as your hand, or even
larger. These aren't fatal, however they are unsightly and show weak
spots in the layup.
-oilcanning (flexing of the bottom of the boat). This is indicitive of
a thin layup, and means the boat is not as rigid as it should be, and
will be a bit harder to handle in current.

Now for the boat itself. What you told us is a bit concerning. By
'Wilderness', I assume you mean "Wilderness Systems", which is owned by
CW. Problem is, Wilderness Systems boats are kayaks and SOTs (sit on
tops)....they don't make canoes (as far as I know). If CW is taking one
of their MR Horizons (which is a fine boat) and relabeling it as a WS
'Woodsman', you need to find out why. It might be a new marketing deal,
or their might be a bad hull that they don't want to put the 'MR' name
on, or you might have some of your facts mixed up. I don't know of any
"Wilderness Woodsman" boat.

But if its a MR Horizon 16' for $450, they are selling it for less than
half its market price. Check it out VERY carefully....it might be an
excellent find, or it might be a lemon in disguise. Personally, I'd be
a bit wary.

Anyone else got input?

--riverman