"Jeff" wrote in message
However, civilized societies have emerged all over the world, without the
benefit of Christian salvation.

"Civilized" and "moral" are not synonymous.

Because you have been insisting that your religion, Christianity, is
superior to all others. In fact you've been specific that without
Christianity, morality as we now know it would not exist.

Here your prejudice shows through with flying colors. First: you have no
idea what my religion is, or even that I practice a religion. I've not
implied anything w/r/t myself--you have made that assumption all by
yourself. Second, I've used the term "western religion" almost synonymously
with Christianity, despite that Christianity, while the majority shareholder
in western religion, is only a part. I've also used the term
"Judeo-Christian." So what am I, Jeff? Am I a Jew? Christian? Atheist?
Agnostic? Druid? Quaker? You'll have to decide, because my religion or
lack thereof is no one's concern but my own. I was attempting to discuss
this dispassionately and without prejudice, based upon historical fact. As
soon as you label me a Christian, it became a debate of a personal nature.

On behalf of all of the would be barbarians of the world I would like to
say that we were getting along pretty well before you came along, and we
could have done just fine without your help, thank you very much.

Yeah, those damned framers of the Constitution and their Christianity. They
ruined everything.

You should remember that only 75% of the US population considers itself
Christian. And a fair portion of those were forced conversions only a few
generations ago. This country is not 99% Christian, as you seem to
think - its real heritage is quite mixed.

Please produce my statement where I implied that 99% of the country is
Christian. You're beginning to sound like Doug.

yes, but I've already agreed that religion is part of human nature, thus
morals are part of human nature.

You and I will have to agree to disagree. This is becoming pointless,
mostly because you seem unable to differentiate between peace and morality.
They aren't anymore synonymous than "civilization" and "morality."

It's a pointless discussion anyway. The majority of 18th, 19th, and 20th
Century European historians concur that western religions played the
majority role in shaping the morality of the periods. Debate them.

Max