Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message

My point was only that the morality that you and Oz attribute to
'enlightenment' is the result of Judeo-Christian morality which was
imposed upon Europe and much of Asia. Take a look at the history of
pre-Christian Europe as evidence. Not much morality in evidence prior to
the Christian movements, unless you happen to believe that raping,
pillaging, and homicide are moral activities.
Max
Aristotle is pre-Christian isn't he?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/aris-eth.htm

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-responsibility/

But where does Christianity come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influen...n_Christianity

Did you catch the part of where the current concept of God as omnipotent
and all good came from?

If anything, the rise of Christianity led to the Dark Ages - a period of
raping, pillaging and homicide. It was the rise of secularism that led to
the Enlightenment.

Revisionist history, Popeye. But why argue this point with you--your mind
is made up. Funny, however, that no one ever heard much about this point of
view until the so-called "religious right" rose to power and influence in
the USA. Politics and religion seem to be inseparable of late.

Max



You cannot refute Aristotle's writings or his influence upon
Christianity. You can't refute his writings on morality predate
Christianity by hundreds of years.

Now you claim my assertion that Christianity led to the Dark Ages is
very recent revisionist history. Not so, but here is something recent:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/...f-theology.asp

Ever notice that virtually all artwork in the Dark Ages is religiously
themed?

Urban centers were controlled by cardinals?

Kings answered to Rome?

Almost all wars were religious based?

Literacy was the dominion of the church?

Science had to comply with religious dogma?

Christianity did not bring morality to the Dark Ages. The Magna Charta
was signed in 1215.

Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153), the most influential Christian
of his time, bore a deep distrust of the intellect and declared "that
the pursuit of knowledge, unless sanctified by a holy mission, was a
pagan act and therefore vile." Worthy of sainthood?

Now why were they referred to as the "Dark Ages"?

Christianity flourished and rose during the Dark Ages. The human
condition declined.


Further along the timeline, why did all those Christians people suffer
great risk and flock to America? Did the Mayflower arrive on a sight
seeing tour? A good number of people left Europe to escape Christianity.

Northern Ireland - there are your good Christians! Moral and no pillaging!

Massachusetts burning witches and outlawing Christmas - there are your
good Christians!

Tammy Faye, Pat Robertson, all the TV stars - good Christians!

Rampant homosexuals and pedophiles in the Catholic Church - known
behaviors for decades - good Christians!

Morality exists independent of Christianity. Practitioners of
Christianity have tried to falsely claim a monopoly on morality.

Religion has some value when used by an individual for his own purpose.
Religion applied to groups leads to intolerance, manipulation and worse.
Organized religion is the tool of con men. History shows this repeatedly.

Popeye