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Joe

Well said Paladin.

Joe

Paladin wrote:
"Gilligan" wrote
| It was about cowardice. When 9/11 happened a good number of people let their
| emotions get the best of them. They wanted revenge and quashed all dissent
| and branded anyone who said "wait a minute, let's think this thing through"
| as a traitor.
| The time to stand up to this was when it first happened. There were very few
| who did. Here, in ASA, it was only the Navigator and he predicted the
| outcome. In the US government it was those politicians who went went the
| tide so they could get relected. It was relection over principle and good of
| the country.

"What's this? A ranger caught off his guard?" --- Arwen Evenstar

What's this? Gilligan putting muddled thinking (his) on top of clear thinking (Goldwater's)????

Most of the time political discussion bores the hell outta me. Most of the time I just shut my mouth.
I hate having to treat with teaming hords of imbeciles.
I'm making an exception this time. There's too much wrong with what you said, Gilligan. Too much
selective memory. Too much propaganda. Too much blaming politicians when there's more than enough
blame to go around for all of us.
You said the time to stand up is when it first happened. Who stood up to all the terrorist attacks
on our country and her assets during the Clinton years? Who stood up prior to that? Not Carter during
the Iran hostage debacle. If you know history it's clear Democrats other than Roosevelt and Kennedy
didn't stand up. They sat there and let enemies of the United States rape us. Clinton's the blame for
9-11. He cut and ran so many times that the terrorists got real brave. They think we're a bunch of wimps.
They think we aren't serious enough to take a stand. They've learned, thanks to Democrats, that we'll
cut and run. Who are Democrats? They're American people.
So along comes President Bush. He took stock of the situation. He knew the time had come to stand up.
He knew it was time to put a stop to the cut and run. The 9-11 attack was the straw that broke the camel's
back. Mr. Bush petitioned congress and congress agreed almost unanimously to go to war with Afgahanistan
and with Iraq. Now the Democrats are back to their old bag of tricks. They conveniently forgot all about
their decision to go to war. They didn't learn a thing. They want to cut and run again. Who is the president"
Who is congress? They are the American people.
So please don't say all politicians are cowards. Who are politicians? They are the American people.
Granted, the cowards are mostly Democrats. They flip-flop all over the place. Republicans take a stand when
it comes to the war against Islamic Fascists and certain other moral principles they hold dear. Who are
Republicans? They are American people.

| Both Republicans and Democrats are to blame. Congress failed to do its job.
| The reason we are in such a mess is that a majority of people did not use
| their heads.

It's Democrats who say we're in such a mess. Very few Republicans are saying it. Blame where blame
is due. Blame the Democrats. But give them credit for being able to convince a lot of people that we're
in such a mess when we aren't. They control the major media. They have one helluva propaganda machine
at work. Its purpose is to do what it takes to get them back into power even if it means destroying the
country.
Saddam Hussein just got a death sentence. Iraq is a developing democracy. We have a military base
right next door to Iran so it will be easier to kick their butts if the time comes. The terrorists don't
benefit from Iraq oil revenue. Afghanistan is doing much better than when ruled by the Taliban. Iraq
is doing much better than when under Saddam. Bin Laden has openly proclaimed the main terrorist front
is Iraq. Terrorists have failed to attack mainland U.S.A. again. Go ahead, believe the liberal spin machine.
Believe it's such a mess. Don't bother using common sense. Don't bother reading about all the positive
things happening in Iraq. Become just another mind-numbed robot.

| Look at the debates here. It is either extreme right or extreme left. Very
| little middle ground, no application of principles or morals, just party
| politics and political expediency.

Duh, there's NO middle ground. You either believe it when Islamic Facists tell us they are going to convert
us to Islamic Law or they're gonna kill us. You either tell them "NO" or you say "OK you win." Mr. Bush and the
Republicans have stood up and said "NO!" That's principled and that's moral. If Mr. Bush was immoral and
unprincipled he would be like the Democrats and he would do what it took to get Republicans re-elected.
Instead he stands firm even when his approval rating is very low. Political expediency would dictate he do
what's popular. But he's a man of moral courage and conviction who's taken a stand - the only stand that will
keep us from being murdered and enslaved. No, there is no middle ground...

| Who is thinking out of the box or
| thinking about the much larger picture of why these messes continually
| happen regardless of who or what runs the country?

The answer to that is President Bush and his staff are thinking out of the box. They are not only
thinking about a much larger picture but they are fighting a war against Islamic Facists the world over.
No, it ain't Republicans and our current president who are the problem. It's the wimp American electorate!
The American electorate is the biggest bunch of selfish, ignorant, gimme-gimme-I-want-it-now, brainwashed,
uninformed, stupid, greedy, say-anything-do-nothing, weakling, myopic, flip-flopping, politically correct,
disengenuous, immoral, pie-in-the-sky, blame the other guy cretins the world has ever had the misfortune to
witness crawling out of lachrymal, limp-wristed warrens of disillusionment.
Should it be that Islamic Facists prevail and behead the entire lot of us it will just be God's way of ridding
the world of a cancer far worse than any Islamic Facist empire. So as Americans we need to stop blaming the
politicians. We need to stop blaming anybody but ourselves. Stand there right in front of that mirror. Point your
forefinger right at your chest. Say "YOU'RE the blame!"
You won't take a stand. You won't stay the course. It follows you won't survive. Does it matter to you?
Apparently not!
Is it any wonder much of the world hates Americans. It's not because of our leaders. It's because of US.
It's because of the way we are. Believe it. We're a sorry bunch of ass clowns and stupid ones at that.
We need to wake up before it's too late....

Paladin
(have blue water yacht - will travel)

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