I notice no one, even your buddy Larry isn't sticking up for
you, *CAPT.* ROB.

BWahahahahahahahah


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
So let's see one that was done in the last 15 or 20 years
that was off
by 15% in upwind prediction. What you're claiming is that
Beneteau
shipped a boat that the polars predicted was as slow
upwind as a
Westsail.


35s5 owners claim to beat the polars by 7-10%.


What course is that? You're the one who doesn't know
what course
he
was on. I've only said it doesn't matter.


You keeping begging for the exact course, but it doesn't
matter? Oh.



I'm not demanding anything. I've only suggested that
any sailor who

was on the boat at the time might know what point of sail
the boat was
on.


Roughly between 50-60 degrees. How's that?


That does not appear to be true. You can't tell us the
point of
sail.


Probably because I was enjoying myself and shooting some
nice vids for
the group. Someone else was sailing. But I gave you a
ROUGH estimate.


Actually you said it was directly to windward.

Nope, never said that...and if I construed it as such it's
wrong. The
mark was to windward, but not directly.

Except for the time
when you said it was 10 degrees off the centerline.

For clip #3, yes. Not what we're talking about.


No, but they don't help that much.

Oh my!



I trust them, within their limitations.

But then even you must essentially guess at those. By and
large modern
instruments are pretty good and mine are newer than yours.


When you never leave sight
of your slip you don't have to learn how your instruments
work.

You can't see my slip from Execution rocks.

You
can just make up numbers to impress your "friends."

And show a video that impressed them even more....though
it upset you
for reasons we all understand!


WRONG! Ask any sailor with experience. "VMG to
Windward" has a
very
specific meaning.

But I clearly made it clear so it would be clear that I
was refering to
a mark windward of us. How many times can I say it? You
don't want to
listen to that because then you have nothing left to stew
about.

You keep saying that. And that's why it is impossible
that your VMG

to Windward was 6 knots.

See above, genius. You really are arguing a point based on
something I
never said. I know what VMG to windward means, but I was
talking about
a mark windward of us. The only backpedal here is YOU
refusing to
acknowledge this little point. Our VMG to the mark, was 6
knots. We
were on a windward tack to get there. Can't you figure
this out? Three
people e-mailed me and THEY understand! Sheesh!


Do you have a point?


It's at the top of your head. Read above. But I think
you're sort of
like a mad bull at this point, working hard to keep this
debate within
the confines of a definition rather than an easy to see
reality...both
in my statements and in the clip.


The concept of directly is implied by "to windward at
just over 6
knots VMG." If you hadn't said VMG, it would have been
understood as
speed through the water by most sailors. But by using
"VMG" and "to
windward" together, you imply the VMG directly into the
wind.


Except that I then made it clear that I was sailing for a
mark. AGAIN!
Oh boy!


I inferred exactly what every sailor would infer.

Do you think any sailor would continue to make such an
inference based
on the facts as I gave them? Would they basically choose
to ignore the
fundamental details? Would they just get it as mind
bleedingly wrong as
you have??? I hope not!!!


and essentially
admitted that you didn't understand the fundamental
concept.

More lies from Jeff the Drunk. Please provide the link to
my comment!



Ooops! You've just opened up another area where you
can
demonstrate
ignorance. Here's a hint: your wing keel does not improve
your
performance to windward. It allows you to have
performance almost as
good as the normal keel with a smaller draft. Not too
many boats have
better upwind performance with a wing keel than with a
deep keel.


BZZZZT!!! A perfect example of why you're losing this
debate! I never
said it outperformed the deep keel version. The Deep keel
sails 3-4
points higher and has less leeway. Once again you infered
idiocy
conjured from your own depths. I simply said the wing does
a good job,
which it does. A wingless 4.9 draft of the same boat would
not perform
as well. And by the way, owners that have sailed BOTH
versions have
claimed less leeway with the wing on a reach all the way
to a close
reach. Heresay, but there it is.


Nonsense. Its a pretty gross error. There's almost no
35 footers
that can do 6 knots "VMG to Windward" while on a close
reach.

Luckily I never made such a claim. You DID!

And
since you're not claiming extreme speeds, its a physical
impossibility.


Just like beating hull speed. Guess why there's so little
support for
you on this, Jeff. Because most folks with experience know
polars are
often topped by significant margins.


Actually, I mentioned "through the water" several
times. And it
takes
a real jackass to try to explain off a blunder like this
by saying you
might have been confused by the current!


Oooooo! Just pointing out that you're incapable of
grasping both the
gross and finer aspects of this discussion!


Why should I?

Why should you? Why make all this effort then?

I was very specific about the meaning of "VMG to
Windward."

And I was VERY specific about my comment and what I meant.
Why choose
to ignore it? So you can argue about an intangible event?
And let's not
forget that you now claim I wasn't even aboard! You sure
are working
hard for someone who doesn't care! Wanna get on the phone
and talk
about it?


They only serve to show your ignorance, such as
labeling a shot when you're on a close reach as "windward
work."

Yep, I guess that was downwind work!


You have to sail another 50,000 miles or so to catch up
to me.

I'm 43, Jeff. Lots of time and boats and sails ahead.

And if we just count to on the boat away from the dock,
you don't
even
come close to me nowadays. For instance, I've averaged 70
full 24
hour days a year on aboard for the last 14 years. You
probably don't
do 70 day sail

Again with the lame "I sailed further, slept aboard and
cooked brownies
in the boom" crap. Play with your toys as you please.



I lied? How you you figure that?


Your VMG of 6 knots was clearly bogus from
the beginning, simply because this is extremely high,
especially for a
35 foot boat.

And you're still wrong, Jeff. Because you've built your
position on
ignoring the facts.


Everyone except knew that, except for you.

Huh? Dude, calm down. Take a pill!!


And you should have realized immediately that any VMG
described in
your conditions clearly could not be the correct VMG to
Windward.

Which is why I explained we were heading for a mark which
was upwind
and our VMG to that mark was 6 knots. NOTHING you're
saying contradicts
this. You're hanging onto the "VMG to windward" term for
dear life, but
you KNOW that's not what I was talking about. You've known
it for 20
posts and yet you still prattle on. I think I have a great
understanding of VMG. In fact, anyone with some clear
understanding
would have known what I meant. But even after I explained
it...as if
you're a two year old...you STILL can't grasp the events!


What numbers fail to support me?


All of them since you've created an event for my boat that
I never
described.


"In clip #2 it's directly to windward. Do you know what
that
means?"

THAT STATEMENT is in error. I meant that the mark was to
windward.


That certainly sounds like you were saying "directly to
windward" to

me. So now you're going to claim that "directly to
windward" does not
mean in the directly from which ...

Nope....and again I think you clearly understand what I
meant and I was
clear that I was sailing on a windward course for a mark
at 6 knots
VMG. You don't want to admit to that because it destroys
all of your
hard work here!
But it's much appreciated, Jeff. Last night I looked up a
lot of polars
online and refined my understanding of them.

Now seriously, dude. Calm the F down!

I'm sorry you lost this debate. Nothing you said was
flawed, but your
ability to adapt to my refined assertions were dreadful.
And so you
lost. Good try though!



RB
35s5
NY