Wrong - this is exactly why its totally impossible that you VMG to
Windward was better than optimal.


And yet your next comment admits that older polars could be off.


But polars
made now are quite accurate for todays boats. Do you really think
todays designers are off by 15% on their speed predictions?


Sure they could, but mine are from 1988, Jeff. Could the polars be
conservative or just off, combined with other modern advantages? When
they tested Hull #1 how many people were on board? Did they have the
rig tunes right. Now it's well known that the 35s5 has a hard-to-tune
rig. Did they get it right...all of it?


All the more reason why your VMG to Windward could not have been
that
high. Are you saying that beating to windward is not the best way to
go to windward

It depends where you're headed, Jeff. VMG to windward optimal is WHAT
on my boat, Jeff....make a guess.


Me. And I thought you said you had old sails.


My old sails still have some good shape left. They are delaminating and
won't last, but they're not blown the way dacron would be. Sadly, they
can't be saved.


And yet you fail to grasp that when you sail lower than the "optimal

point" your VMG to Windward goes down. What part of not sailing at
the "optimal point" do you not understand?

VMG to a mark is exactly that, Jeff. Our VMG to our windward mark was 6
knots.


Yes, but the subtlety of this you will not understand.


Nonsense. Garmin themselves reports that handheld GPS units give up no
accuracy to larger units so long as they have good contact.

The GPS by
itself does not know where the wind is, and therefore cannot report
the VMG with respect to the wind direction.

I have wind instruments, Jeff.


Thus, when your friend's
GPS displayed VMG, it was not VMG to Windward.

I have wind instruments, Jeff.


If however, you have
an integrated system, then the wind direction is known, and a pretty
fair guess of the true VMG can be computed.


Yes.


Nope. I made no such assumption. I only might have said that the
best VMG you could obtain was at about 40 degree, if you were sailing
lower than that your VMG to Windward would fall off.

Jeff, listen carefully. CAREFULLY. Our VMG to the WINWARD MARK was 6
knots. Do you understand that this is correct terminology even on a
reach?


At 45 degrees, you'd have to be doing 8.6 knots (actually 9 knots,
including leeway) to have a VMG to Windward of 6 knots.

Jeff, we topped 8 knots a few times. The 1st clip I posted was 7.2 to
7.5. We went faster with some trimming.
I don't think we hit 9 knots. I've been aboard this boat with a crew in
Florida and topped 10 knots and I know what THAT felt like. But I think
the video shows we're moving pretty fast. We spent a lot of time
between 7 and 8 knots.


So you were footed well off. How much do you figure - 50 degrees?
55
degrees?

That's a good question. I could not tell you with any acuraccy for this
discussion.


So lets look at it the other way - are you claiming you can go
upwind
as fast as a Frers 45, or a Swan 51?

Nope.


BTW, do you know what a 12-meter polar looks like? It says that the

optimal VMG to windward is about 5.5 knots, at about 42 degrees in 14
knots wind.

We were not in 14 knots of wind. Do you think that those 12 meter
polars are also carved in stone?


Isn't that just what I said?


Yep, but I'm trying to keep you entertained.


I don't know about that. I do know that you said "Any First (which
I
assume includes yours) would toast an Ericson 35."

My comment is no less vague than Bart's comment about sailing circles
around Beneteaus. I made no mention of my boat.


But what about you?

I'm only worried about the cost of my new sails.


Actually, yes. Though it may not have been part of the original
design priority. The adjustable rig was actually a bit of a
breakthrough in wishbone technology.

Nonsuch had always promoted the ease of sailing thier boats and the
forgiving nature of the rig underway, even in their ads.

I routinely did major sail shape
adjustments while underway, sometimes several times an hour. Have
you done any this year? How often do you change the outhaul?


Not too often. It was adjusted only once on Monday to help flatten the
sail....why do you ask? I re-tuned the lowers today and will hoist
someone small to do the uppers on Friday.


The only sinking I've heard about involved an owner who panicked and

started throwing gear overboard, including his hatch boards.

That's THE ONE. Anthony was the captain of the boat. It's a great
story, but I should not post it here. I can e-mail you the facts if you
have any interest. But the key element of the story is that Anthony was
considering the idea of abandoning the Nonsuch before that happened.
She had already rolled several times and was very slow to recover. BTW,
the owner collected his insurance and bought a Nonsuch 30, which was
here for quite a while. CBS also courted them for the story for a
possible TV movie, but it never came together.


Then your understanding is faulty. But, you haven't been very
reliable in the past.


I though I could be counted on to lie?



And why did you insist it was off the bow?:


because in clip # 3 it was.


Are you sure this mark was actually attached to the bottom?


You mean a Coors bottle doesn't count?



Nor was it far away.


if you're within a quarter mile there's no way it
can be used to determine the VMG to Windward.


About a 3/4 a mile away, Jeff.


Just below a close reach would be about 60 degrees off the true
wind.

We were a bit higher. Hul speed was exceeded.


So are you now saying you were doing 12 knots through the water?

Nope.


RB
35s5
NY