Joe wrote:
Bonzo wrote:

Joe wrote:
Excellent explaination Bonzo,

Someone who wants to master a vessel, or really anything will journey
thru this 4 step process.

Step 1. unconsciously incompetant
Step 2. consciously incompetant
Step 3. consciously competant
Step 4. unconsciously compentant

Would you like to explain each step in detail... so we all have a
clear picture?

Joe

Hey Joe sorry it took so long to respond, I'm just catching up to these
older posts.

The correct step listing would be:



1. Conscious incompetence - you just learned to tie your shoe, but your
not good at it yet.


More like you now understand your mistakes

Or at least are learning them or hopefully learning to correct them.

2. Conscious competence - after practice you are good at tying your
shoe, but you still have to think about each step.


True


3. Unconscious incompetence - you know you are getting better at tying
your shoe because you don't have to think about it much.


Wrong...unconscious incompetence means you do not even know what you
are doing wrong. You do not have a clue.

You may or may not be doing something wrong, that wasn't my point. My
point was about the natural process of learning a skill down to the
unconscious level. It appears you do not understand the concept of
unconscious incompetence as a part of the learning process. I am
referring to the widely accepted idea in psychology and hypnosis and NLP
of a transition during the learning process that takes you from being
consciously competent in a skill, and through further practice your
unconscious mind is now learning to do the skill unconsciously. But
since you haven't yet practiced it enough, you are still only partially
skilled at the unconscious level. Through further practice you will
become really good at it unconsciously and automatically - which then
means you have transitioned to unconsciously competent in that skill.

4. Unconscious Competence - you can tie your shoe in the morning while
simultaneously talking on the phone to yer pal about your *first time in
the saddle with Katy last night* and still get it right.


Doing it wothout even thinking about it..It comes natural

Exactly.

Bonzo


I listed the steps in the correct order, you are unconsciously
incompetent in changing my order.

Um, no. I was listing the order in which we learn a skill down to the
unconscious level. I listed my order consciously.

Step 1. unconsciously incompetant

Just stepped on the boat and have no clue, you do things wrong, and do
not even know you are doing it wrong.

Sorry Joe, no skill and no knowledge isn't what I was talking about - at
all. I was referrering to, and I thought you wanted to know about, a
process of learning. The steps I listed above is the order in which we
learn down to the unconscious level. If you have no knowledge or skill,
there has been no learning yet. If you'd like I can send you about a
bunch of references of hypnosis and psychology books so you can learn
about it. Better yet, I would suggest you post this entire reply to the
hypnosis group (or even better still an NLP group) verbatim and see what
they say. And please post their reply verbatim here so I can learn too.

Step 2. consciously incompetant


Now when you make mistakes you know it, and get it right next time.
You now understand what you are doing wrong.

The conscious incompetent stage is the first stage of learning, when you
just begin to learn a skill set. You are just learning it, you are not
yet competent in that skill set. And while you are learning it is just
as easy to learn the mistakes as it is to learn the correct method -
hence all the people who do the wrong thing habitually. It depends what
information we are presented, or which decisions we make, during the
learning process. Which leads to;

Step 3. consciously competant


You know how to do it right now, you understand the correct way to do
it, but you still have to think about it, your up to speed but you
still stumble.

Step 2. Conscious competence is when you are consciously competent - you
have practiced the skill until you are good at it consciously (whether
you have learned the correct or incorrect way to do it), but it hasn't
begun to become an automatic, unconscious skill yet - you still think
about the steps.

Step 3. Unconscious incompetence - you are beginning to do it
automatically but not entirely, or just parts of it, or not with the
skill level up to par, or may still have to think about it or parts of
it at times or during certain circumstances.

We do not instantly go directly from conscious competence to
unconscious competence without this transition in the learning process.

Step 4. unconsciously compentant


you do not even have to think about it, it comes natural and you do it
right with out even thinking about it..

Correct! Well, you do what you learned whether you learned it the wrong
way or learned it the right way, but you do it automatically.

Seriously Joe, if you want to learn more about it, pick up a few good
books on Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) at any good book store or
library. So much useful info and skills can be learned easily through
those methods.
A suggestion: pick up anything from Richard Bandler (and anyone else his
name is listed with on the cover) - easy to read and understand, and
immediately and very useful. There are many other great ones, check with
an NLP group.

Bonzo

Joe