Capt. Rob wrote:

Actually, I
have a number of friends who think benny's are crap, but I try to keep
an open mind.


I used to think Beneteau was crap (Seriously), but then I actually
learned more about them. Guess what: Some Beneteau's ARE crap as are
some boats from Catalina and Hunter.

I'm sure some are built better than others. And I've always supported
the wide diversity in designs - each boat has a place.

However, Bennyhuntalinas don't do anything for me, even if they're
setup to go fast. Also, Gemini's, EndeavorCats, and most of the
French charter cats I find equally unappealing.


Why would you consider the optimal VMG? because that's one of the
most important parts of the polar. The question is, why would you
even consider the pinching angles if you're not racing?

Because it's part of the range of sailing capabilities of my boat and I
should know what that is and be skilled at it. Does that make ANY sense
to you? Also, I already descibed a situation where pinching is useful.

Pinching is useful in some situations, but only a racer is concerned
about exactly the angle and speed.



The "pointing race"??? BWAHAHAHAHA! You really think anyone cares
about that?


It seems that you care about it quite a bit for some reason.

You have frequently said that a given boat "doesn't point well."
Virtually all sailors will take that to mean that the angle of optimal
VMG is not very high. Some naive sailors will also take it to imply
that a boat doesn't go upwind well. It turns out that when *you* say
that, you're ignoring the primary usage and talking about a rather
esoteric meaning that no one actually cares about, outside of race
tacticians.

What this means is that every description of a boat that you've every
made is tainted by your fundamental mis-understanding of the basics of
sailing. Of course, everyone already knew that.



Now you're admitting that you
knew my boat could beat yours upwind, so all you wanted was to win the
"pointing race"!!!

Wanted to win? Personification of inanimate boat capability and you
seem to take it personally. Scary. My boat is the higher pointing boat

Fine. Like most of the features you look for, its rather useless and
misses the point of sailing out of sight of your slip.

and superior in light air, which is a dominant weather condition here
for several months of the season. Your boat is a BAD choice for the
LIS.

And how often do I sail in LIS? Although I've passed through a number
of times, its almost never been a "destination."


You claim you sailed today, but it looks like you had someone
explain
the difference between pinching and sailing upwind

Who knew pinching isn't sailing upwind, folks!!!!????

To those of us who actually learned to sail, there is an implication
that we make at least a vague attempt to handle the boat properly for
a given situation. Someone who chronically over-sheets, or luffs
sails, or has the jib sheeted to the wrong side is branded as a newbie.

So is someone who chronically pinches and claims he's going upwind.




That might be because you're a newbie who lives in a area with
almost
no cats.

There are a lot of forums, lots of magazines and I know two cat owners
here. No one ever comments on the sweet lines of a Cat.

That's wrong. I just made such a comment. Several people in this
forum have commented that my boat is nice looking. I'll admit that I
don't get compliments like I got for the Nonsuch ("this is easily the
prettiest boat in the marina...") but I have had my share of
compliments, and more than a few people have said this is just the
kind of boat they want to go cruising in.

But I have had
plenty of nice comments on the aggresive looks of my boat.

Its not often that anyone will tell a boat owner that their boat
really sucks. You have to rely on your real friends like us for that
kind of tough love.

I just found
out that she also won Boat of the Year in London in 1989. That's three
boat of the year awards. I guess a lot of people like her looks.


That's the primary situation where it has a significant edge over
other boats, especially when used as a family cruiser.

Actually, you're wrong again. In conditions where it's blowing nicely,
she's still got better accomodations and speed than most boats her
size. Only a few boats in her size/price range do as well or better,
but with more draft.

You could look at the "Motion Comfort Factor" of your boat. Its hard
to find one with a lower rating that isn't billed as a racing boat.
On the other hand, lots of boats will be a lot more comfortable in
stronger air, and they move along just fine.

Of course, if you only measure performance as "pointing ability" and
comfort as having a 7 foot bunk that needs A/C so as to be not
"horrific," then maybe yours is the best.



55 is a distant memory. Remember, I've been retired for 6 years.

Well, at your age a Cat makes sense. I admit that every time one comes
through here it's with older/retired owners. We have a Gemini and older
Prout here. Both owners are pushing 70.

The average age of the users group is certainly brought up by the
retirees, but there are plenty of owners in their early 50's and some
younger. Clearly since the used price of any but the cheapest cats is
over $120K, this is not for young kids just starting out. Further,
for daysailing, there are better multihull rides than a cruising cat -
maybe a F28.



I said 12 large hatches, the kind you can crawl through. Two are
over
each queen size bunk, facing forward so wide open its normally too
cold even in a heat wave. Two directly over the saloon table, two
more in the galley.

The 35s5 has two opening ports in her aft cabin, one opening hatch in
the head plus powered exhaust vent, two large hatches in the main cabin
and 4 opening ports, plus powered exhaust vent, another large hatch
forward. Given are smaller CF, that's very good air flow.

The only hatches that really give ventilation are the 3 large forward
facing hatches. The small side hatches are only useful for survival,
and what's up with hatches into the cockpit? I can understand why
sleeping in your aft cabin is "horrific" even on a mooring.


A/C is for people who only sleep at marinas.

You always hang on a mooring? You never work on board? A hundred
hatches won' make the interior liveable if it's 102 degrees out.

We slept on moorings or anchor maybe 45 nights last summer, it will
probably be a bit less this summer due to family commitments. I think
we've slept at the dock 2 nights in the last 5 years. Much (probably
most, in the summer) of my boat work is when we're on a mooring.
While traveling for a year there were only a few nights when I started
thinking A/C might be nice, but a wind chute actually does work for
creating a healthy breeze (assuming you have an overhead hatch, which
you don't).

Tuesday was heat wave here, I read 99 degrees a short distance from
the marina. I spent 3 hours mid-day doing plumbing and carpentry in
the head. Yes, it was hot but I just stepped into the shower for a
quick rinse to "test my work." Also, I could of just jumped off my
boat for a dip, but that's not always a good option where you are.

I can however, see why even the small powerboats around me have A/C -
they have almost no ventilation. And if I lived aboard dockside I
would probably get it. The odd thing about your A/C obsession is that
is an easy addition to almost any boat. You talk like your boat is
superior because it was designed for A/C. I claim its inferior
because it needs A/C. (Otherwise, it would be Horrific!)




I'm glad you have one.

Us too. Everyone told us it was worthwhile and they were right. A
genset will probably be next.

That way you can be the most hated boat in the anchorage. I guess
that compliments your image.



But whats the big deal? I could add one for a few thousand bucks,
its
not like they're not allowed on some boats, its that most sailors
don't want them.

Proper A/C and install on my boat cost more than a few thousand bucks.
And on your boat it would be VERY expensive to do a proper install.

The quote I got (from the high end guys who travel from RI) was $4-5K,
more if I wanted to chill all of the cabins all of the time. However,
there was nothing they were doing that is beyond my skill set, and its
actually fairly simple though includes enough plumbing, wiring, and
carpentry that most owners would not want to do it themselves. I
figure under $2K in parts and a few day's work to put in one unit to
chill the saloon, galley and owners' stateroom. My boat actually has
a spot under the saloon seat and backing onto the owners' bunk with a
nearby water inlet that was left for A/C and/or a water maker. BTW,
it would raise my marina bill about $400 a year. Just to make it a
bit nicer on a couple of heat wave days? I don't think so!


Did
you know that a climate control system will even prolong the interior
life of your boat, cut mildew ad mold and create a healthier setting in
general?

Oddly, We've had almost no mildew, virtually none in the living areas.
Must be the good ventilation. I do remember being startled when a
mega-yacht captain told me "This boat would die in a month if it
didn't have A/C." This is why they need redundant gensets and A/C.



just don't need that tippy feeling to have fun.

Jeff, the range of motion of a monhull is PART of the appeal for many
people. No one "get's over it" until their knees give out. When Heart
of Gold heels to 15% and slices upwind, her headstay clipping the
setting sun, it's all smiles. Aboard your cat it would feel like
standing on a dock. No thanks!

What ever you say. On the odd occasion that we get knocked more than
5 degrees I get yells from the galley that dinner will be ruined if I
keep that up. On the other hand, when we're doing 9 knots and the
guest are sun-bathing on the trampoline a few feet above the rushing
water, its all smile too. But at the end of the day we've done 80
miles and our knees haven't given out.

Yes, I agree heeling can be fun for a while, but the excitement wears
off on a 36 hour passage. And rolling in an anchorage loses it
excitement in about 3.6 seconds.



RB - too much of a coward to apologize for his
erroneous "series of attacks started by you" comments
35s5
NY