In article , Maxprop
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article et,
Maxprop wrote:

Yeah, I know that. But the big driver is interest/obsession IME. For
the best ones, at least.

Try taking away their big NIH grants or corporate salaries/bonuses and see
how many of them still are obsessed.

Shrug. Some R&D is so expensive, it either gets funded by Govts
(directly or indirectly) or by big corporations. Nobody else can afford
it. Not a matter of obsession at that point.

Costs my group some $3 mill to stage a single research cruise. Even in
USD that ain't cheap and it doesn't include the salaries of up to 70
scientists & techs, nor ship fuel.

About as useful and sensible as the next time I have a problem with my
interrelated software/hardware control systems, I should consult a
doctor. You'll have to do better than that, Max. I didn't say doctors
weren't skilled. Mostly, they are. The surgeon who put my arm together
did a pretty good job of it considering how badly I managed to smash
it. I'm happy with the end result. So what? A top orthopaedic surgeon
is a real good bone mechanic :-)

Yes, he is. But he is also a powerful physiologist, diagnostician, and
therapist.

Matter of opinion. The surgeon didn't have much to do with me after the
op except a couple checkups. My physiotherapist, OTOH, spent a lot of
time up close & personal. She's not a doctor. He wasn't a therapist in
the sense I'm using.

If he weren't those things, your anaesthetic-induced arythmias
might prove fatal during your total hip replacement.

Different specialty. Doctors are rarely extensively cross trained once
they've become senior specialists IME. We employ such doctors (cross
trained ones) because we send them places where there's no possibility
of backup and the surgical nurses, anesthetists etc are people like -
me. As I said one trip, you better not get badly hurt because I'll be
operating the anaesthetic while the doc does the work :-)

Or the microbial
pathogen you contracted during the surgery might undo all he did with his
"bone mechanics."

Ditto. That's either good aseptic control on the part of the hospital
or maybe downright carelessness I guess. Nevertheless I got my butt
outa hospital and home ASAP. Had a hairline fracture of the pelvic
girdle and wasn't supposed to be walking for 6 weeks, but I was outa
there 3 days after they'd finished pinning my arm back together. 3 ops
over a week, I learnt the benefits of a morphine drip under patient
control :-) Thank God I wasn't in the USA, the DEA probably woulda
locked everyone up for abuse of narcotics.

If the fuel pump the auto mechanic replaced did not
solve your car's stalling-at-stoplights problem, he'll replace something
else until he gets it right. Either way your car lives to drive another
day. Bad comparison, doctor vs. mechanic.

I'll agree that the consequences of failure might be higher with an
auto mechanic, but possibly not with, say, an airline one.


We have been/are losing doctors in the OB/GYN specialties due to plain
stupid lawsuits so I hear you. Occasionally there's a glimmer of hope.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...9-1702,00.html

I had a suggestion for 'wrongful life' cases. We should just offer to
terminate them now, end of problem.

LOL. What crap litigation that was. Seriously, however, the problem of
junk suits won't go away here, mostly because the trial lawyers groups in
this country are too powerful, not to mention that so many of our
congressmen, senators, and presidents are attorneys. If ever there was a
special interest group overrepresented in our government it is lawyers.

My cousin is doing primarily OB now. He has religious qualms with abortion,
so he cannot participate in the GYN end of his group practice. But he knows
his time as a physician is probably limited. Any baby born with birth
defects or with delivery complications is a potential lawsuit these days.

Our High Court has no settled the birth defect one at least insofar as
'wrongful life' claims go.

He's been sued five times for complaints so far beyond his control as to
stretch the imagination. All five cases were dismissed for lack of evidence
of neglect on his part, but he still had to endure the expense, the mental
turmoil, and the negative publicity such suits have wrought. OB is in a
unique position in that young women know that if they sue the doctor and
win, the damage to the profession won't affect them in the future, provided
they are through with childbearing. So such suits are plentiful. Let the
upcoming generations worry about where to find OB care---it's no longer my
problem.

We had one woman who sued because she was advised to have a C-section
rather than a vaginal delivery, because of some factor(s) I forget. End
result was a healthy mother & baby, but she sued because she'd been
deprived of the experience of a natural childbirth. Can't remember if
she won or not, but it's crap like that causes doctors to give it away.

Don't get me started on lawyers.

(see above) You've already gotten me started.

Second group against the wall, come the revolution.....


The media paint a very one-sided, distorted view of medical people, Pete.
If you are forming your impressions from them, you really need to change
your information-gathering methods.


Umm, Max, I'm one of those oddball people who *read*. I don't own a TV
or a radio.

Sorry, but that doesn't prevent you from getting one-sided info. Much of
the written media these days have rather anti-medical biases.

Sure, but it cuts down the crap no end. Big improvement in the S/N
ratio, similar to killfiling Bob here.

Years ago physicians were regarded in near-godlike terms. Today most people
are aware that they, like everyone else, are just humans with the same
fallibility, idiosyncrasies, and problems. I don't believe the current crop
of physicians *wants* you to be in awe of them. To the contrary, most of
them want you to know up front that they are doing their level best and do
care for your welfare, but are not free from error or misjudgment. Times
have changed in the medical world. Ego and arrogance are not absent, but
they do not define the doctor any longer.

I agree. We've drifted far from the starting point by now. I still
don't think it requires top level SAT/TER scores to make a good doctor.
Academic ability (or ability to pass exams) is useful but not
sufficient. If I had to pick a 'talent', it'd be the ability to
synthesise a raft of information and make a correct diagnosis more
often than an incorrect one. I don't underestimate the ability of doing
this, nor do I think that lawyers, who can't do it themselves even with
100% hindsight, aid the process one iota.

The population at large may well no longer be in awe of doctors, but
they sure are in contempt of lawyers. I can't see that changing any
time soon.

PDW