"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Nations form when people have common bonds of language, religion,
tradition, and other values. Trying to make a nation from three groups
like the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds is like pouring crankcase oil,
water, and honey into a gallon jug and then wondering why it doesn't
all blend together nicely. The Brits probably thought, "Hell, nobody
lives out there but a bunch of sand people anyway- so let's just lump a
big area together, give it a name, and make it easier to administer."

The only reason it hadn't fallen apart in the last 20 years is that
Saddam insisted on a secular government and also scared the crap out of
all sides. The US has allowed the people to vote in a constitution that
is at least semi-religious, and we can't scare the crap out of
*anybody* without playing into the propaganda program of the religious
fanatics.... we're in a tough spot. We should have looked at a bigger
picture before invading this place, but now that we're there it's
obvious that *nobody* has a good solution for resolving matters and
getting out. Too bad.

Chuck,

Good job. You have hit the nerve of this problem and you are 100%
correct, IMO.

RCE

If we didn't have a president who was so inexperienced in the ways of the
world, so unread, so naive, and so easily led by those with an agenda too
cerebral for him, we might not be in this mess.

Recall, please, that prior to his ascendancy to the presidency,
Bush had only traveled to one foreign country, and that country was...
Mexico. He also bragged about NOT being a reader.

Perhaps if Bush had been a bit more sophisticated, he would have listened
to his father, who advised him NOT to take over Iraq and occupy it.

I don't think there is a ghost of a chance of Iraq surviving as a nation
as it is presently configured. There's going to be a *lot* more killing,
and you know what? We're going to take the blame for it for as long as we
are there and for generations afterward.

We've now "rebuilt" the Iraqi defense forces and poured billions into
their training and equipment. It's time for Itaqis to decide what they
want their country to be and, if they want to hold it together, let them
fight for that.

But I don't believe it is something they value. As Chuck and others have
pointed out, Iraq really is a sham nation and it was held together by a
strongman.

It's not uncommmon. Some readers here might remember there was a nation
called Yugoslavia. It was also held together by a dictator. But Tito
wasn't the monster Saddam is. Still, after the fall of the Soviet Union,
Yugoslavia dissolved and warfare broke out.

Would it be such a bad thing if Iraq unravelled into ethnic regions the way
that Yugoslavia unravelled into Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia and
Herzegovina, Serbia, and Montenegro?

Create a region in the north called Kurdistan. Carve out most of the West
and South and give it to the Sunnis. Give the East to the Shia...and let
them join Iran if they choose. And then bomb Iran.