Frank, it looks like your experience is in manufacturing and process
control. My background is in R&D. In R&D there's established processes but
the outcomes are not known. There's a bit more trial and error and luck.
Just because something works a few times doesn't mean it can get built in
volumes, or will ever work again. The manufacturing guys a ver important.
They're the ones that actually make the money for the company.

Amen!
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:45:18 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:13:55 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
m...
On 2 Feb 2006 08:03:47 -0800, wrote:

Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects.
This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life.

That's true but I think it is getting better. I was approached by a
professor who taught metalurgy of casting and joining to come to his
class and present a case study. Anything that I wanted that was real
world and practical. My case study was on the difficulty in
maintaining the appropriate post machining flatness with cast iron saw
tables. I presented the process from the foundry to the consumer and
let them determine what they would do to improve the process. The
students took to it with great enthusiasm. Although I provided them
with a video of the process, some came to the factory to observe. The
professor says he does that a lot and so do others in the Engineering
Department.

I can't remember anything like that happening when I was in school.

Now, if we could only keep the jobs for these students in this
country!

Frank


Try annealing or cooling in a magnetic field.



See there you go. Anyone can come up with a solution if cost is not
an issue. I said practical.

The solutions lie in the gating methods, shake out procedure, the
machining process itself. These are things that don't add cost.
Requires education and experience to come up with practical solutions.

No, it usually requires trial and error and a large scrap bin.

If education and experience were really a factor, you wouldn't have had
the
problem in the first place.

Education gives you the ability to anticipate problems you haven't
experienced, experience gives you a quiver of solutions to problems.


Problems arise due to lack of foresight, education or experience (actually
poor management is the root of most problems). Most of the ways problems
are
solved is through trial, error and luck.

Not a problem, Bob, a condition. A problem is when something changes
in an established process. A condition is your start state when you
want to achieve an end, maybe that has not been possible yet. And yes
there could be a lot of trial and error to get there. Education and
experience is what limits the amount of trial and error to get to the
end. And provides criteria for prioritizing the experiments. Makes
the process of improvement efficient.

If I currently can hold (by statistical capability study) .008"
diagonally measured flatness and I want to hold .004", I don't have a
problem, I have a current state and an improvement goal.

The only place education and experience really counts is for lawyers in
the
courtroom. For that they are richly rewarded. An engineer with 30 or 40
years experience is over the hill.

Amen!